We Studied the Tree of Life in the Bible (Here’s What We Found)

[Vine Abider]

8 hours ago, Neighbor said:

A question that has always been in my mind is: If God prevented  the eating from The tree of life once the man and wo-man were in a fallen state because they would be like them, and live forever as they do. Then why didn't the man  already become like them before his fall and live forever?

So I an enjoying looking at it once again!

 

My understanding is that they ate the good/bad knowledge tree first, and then God cut off access to the tree of life so they wouldn't be eternally in that vile state.  The tree of life was made available in Christ, but He had to go through a substitutionary death first, in order to terminate the first, corrupted Adam.  The 1st Adam was nailed to the cross (tree) in Christ, then the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit to renew man and restore him back to life and God's original intention.

Is that how you see it?

[Neighbor]

30 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

My understanding is that they ate the good/bad knowledge tree first, and then God cut off access to the tree of life so they wouldn't be eternally in that vile state.  The tree of life was made available in Christ, but He had to go through a substitutionary death first, in order to terminate the first, corrupted Adam.  The 1st Adam was nailed to the cross (tree) in Christ, then the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit to renew man and restore him back to life and God's original intention.

Is that how you see it?

Hi, I had to read that aloud slooowly to myself, but yes that is the way I see it.

What I do not see within the Bible ( So far) is  the statement that either Adam or Eve first man and wo-man ever ate of the tree of life prior to the fall of Adam before his eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I see those two trees as literally being real tres that bore real fruit, the consumption of which would bring  life eternal, which they each already had,  or death which neither knew a thing about for there was no death on earth.

The best I have found so far regarding the actual eating of the fruit of life eternal are statements regarding that being a "presumption",- one not stated as fact in the Bible. It has always interested me. especially  as I think that if the fruit of the tree of life gave life eternal then how could the tree of knowledge of good and evil bring death?

Seems to me the concern of God was because it couldn't, not if the fruit of eternal life had been consumed.

Fun stuff!

[enoob57]

In Genesis chapter 1 there exist no sin, no law, just God's perfection in creation of both heaven and earth and that which they contained:
Genesis 2:1 (KJV)
                  This includes all that was created both in heaven /earth                              
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

              This is complete perfection in both                                                           

[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
                                                             reiteration of entirety of existing
because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

There exists no law as all was permissible to eat
Genesis 1:29 (KJV)
                                              This is structured grammatically as permissible not commandment    
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

 

Something has changed in God's creation from chapter 1 into chapter 2 because now we see the first law given in creation
Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
                                          this is a commandment / law                      
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

We know by Scripture where there is no law there exist no sin
Romans 4:15 (KJV)

[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Thus, biblically we can conclude that after the sanctification God placed upon all of His creation- transgression has entered into the creation. We know it was not Adam and Eve- so what is left in Scripture is the fall of Lucifer... Isaiah 14 and Ezekial 28...
 

 

There is no record of them eating of the tree of life but there is record of them eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... Genesis 3...

There is this logic however: if eating of the tree 'death would occur'... then it must be understood life was eternal, in such, no death existed prior to the eating of...


The Bible does give us record as to why God removed them from garden and the tree of life:
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)

[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Now the obedience to God's record is to not add or take away from this accounting of this Scripture...

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

It has always interested me. especially  as I think that if the fruit of the tree of life gave life eternal then how could the tree of knowledge of good and evil bring death?

Seems to me the concern of God was because it couldn't, not if the fruit of eternal life had been consumed.

Fun stuff!

I see the knowledge tree as being independence from God, who is life itself.  The half-truth spoken by the serpent may give a key: “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”  Being like God, we then think we have no need of Him, for we know what is right & wrong and believe we can function apart from Him. But independence from Him, "the fountain of living water," (Jer 2:13) just brings death.

[Vine Abider]

40 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

In Genesis chapter 1 there exist no sin, no law, just God's perfection in creation of both heaven and earth and that which they contained:
Genesis 2:1 (KJV)
                  This includes all that was created both in heaven /earth                              
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

              This is complete perfection in both                                                           

[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:
                                                             reiteration of entirety of existing
because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

There exists no law as all was permissible to eat
Genesis 1:29 (KJV)
                                              This is structured grammatically as permissible not commandment    
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

 

Something has changed in God's creation from chapter 1 into chapter 2 because now we see the first law given in creation
Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
                                          this is a commandment / law                      
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

We know by Scripture where there is no law there exist no sin
Romans 4:15 (KJV)

[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Thus, biblically we can conclude that after the sanctification God placed upon all of His creation- transgression has entered into the creation. We know it was not Adam and Eve- so what is left in Scripture is the fall of Lucifer... Isaiah 14 and Ezekial 28...
 

 

There is no record of them eating of the tree of life but there is record of them eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... Genesis 3...

There is this logic however: if eating of the tree 'death would occur'... then it must be understood life was eternal, in such, no death existed prior to the eating of...


The Bible does give us record as to why God removed them from garden and the tree of life:
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)

[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

[24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Now the obedience to God's record is to not add or take away from this accounting of this Scripture...

Good account there bro!  

And interesting thought about there not being a law existing prior (to God saying they shall not eat of the knowledge tree).  This brings up another point to consider - was it just the law they broke that brought in sin, or was there also something inherent in the knowledge tree's fruit?  That is, was there something that they ingested into their being, that corrupted them.  Romans 7:17 tells us sin actually dwells in the flesh of man, so did sin/corruption get there by ingesting this fruit, or simply by the disobedience to God's word?

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Good account there bro!  

And interesting thought about there not being a law existing prior (to God saying they shall not eat of the knowledge tree).  This brings up another point to consider - was it just the law they broke that brought in sin, or was there also something inherent in the knowledge tree's fruit?  That is, was there something that they ingested into their being, that corrupted them.  Romans 7:17 tells us sin actually dwells in the flesh of man, so did sin/corruption get there by ingesting this fruit, or simply by the disobedience to God's word?

My studied place thus far:
 

Quote

was it just the law they broke that brought in sin, or was there also something inherent in the knowledge tree's fruit?

I believe it is in actual reality that the uncreated substance is Spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)

[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

To answer this we must examine where sin originated: God states it was lucifer:
John 8:44 (KJV)

[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And it was in Lucifers desire to rebel against the s/Spiritual purpose in his own existence... God tells us that Lucifer was given elevated status of the other angels by:

appearance:

Ezekiel 28:13a (KJV)

[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:

Ezekiel 28:17a (KJV)

[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: 

by placement:

Ezekiel 28:14a (KJV)

[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;

by abillity:

Ezekiel 28:14b (KJV)

thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:13a (KJV)
 the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:16a (KJV)

[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise 

The Lord tells us that all creations purpose is

Romans 1:20 (KJV)

[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

By this all we can understand that high place and abilities were given to Lucifer for the purpose of elevating the understanding of the other angels in God's abilities by that which He had creatively placed in Lucifer... this is where the origin of sin began. Lucifer instead of enjoying his purpose and fulfilling it as God intended, he rebelled...  Because of the reality that all was come from God and even the perfection within himself he had nothing to rebel against God with... he was forced by desperation to be other than what he was by beginning the lie- he, himself, would be god... 

So, in short, sin is the absence of God which cannot be and has no place in all eternity for God exists omnipresence- thus the creation of the lake of fire where only God's wrath abides forever without end... evil is the presentation of lie in action and there exists nothing of God in it... hence the reason God is burning up all 1st creation and removing all memory of such as it also has no place in the knowledge of good...

[Vine Abider]

34 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

My studied place thus far:
 

I believe it is in actual reality that the uncreated substance is Spirit
John 4:24 (KJV)

[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

To answer this we must examine where sin originated: God states it was lucifer:
John 8:44 (KJV)

[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And it was in Lucifers desire to rebel against the s/Spiritual purpose in his own existence... God tells us that Lucifer was given elevated status of the other angels by:

appearance:

Ezekiel 28:13a (KJV)

[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold:

Ezekiel 28:17a (KJV)

[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: 

by placement:

Ezekiel 28:14a (KJV)

[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God;

by abillity:

Ezekiel 28:14b (KJV)

thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:13a (KJV)
 the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:16a (KJV)

[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise 

The Lord tells us that all creations purpose is

Romans 1:20 (KJV)

[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

By this all we can understand that high place and abilities were given to Lucifer for the purpose of elevating the understanding of the other angels in God's abilities by that which He had creatively placed in Lucifer... this is where the origin of sin began. Lucifer instead of enjoying his purpose and fulfilling it as God intended, he rebelled...  Because of the reality that all was come from God and even the perfection within himself he had nothing to rebel against God with... he was forced by desperation to be other than what he was by beginning the lie- he, himself, would be god... 

So, in short, sin is the absence of God which cannot be and has no place in all eternity for God exists omnipresence- thus the creation of the lake of fire where only God's wrath abides forever without end... evil is the presentation of lie in action and there exists nothing of God in it... hence the reason God is burning up all 1st creation and removing all memory of such as it also has no place in the knowledge of good...

That fits my basic theology too . . . so my question is this: Was it just the act of disobedience in eating the forbidden tree?  Or was there a spiritual element and the forbidden tree's fruit represents something spiritual that man took into him, thus corrupting God's creation both man himself and the earthly creation God gave man dominion over?

I've always thought that God used the picture of fruit, that is, something that is eaten, to show it is something that got inside of man.  As is said:  We are what we eat.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

That fits my basic theology too . . . so my question is this: Was it just the act of disobedience in eating the forbidden tree?  Or was there a spiritual element and the forbidden tree's fruit represents something spiritual that man took into him, thus corrupting God's creation both man himself and the earthly creation God gave man dominion over?

I've always thought that God used the picture of fruit, that is, something that is eaten, to show it is something that got inside of man.  As is said:  We are what we eat.

Indeed. Rebellion Against Prohibited Consumption = Sinful Consumption 

2Co 11:3  But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Very sneaky, very cunning, very sly and crafty, getting satisfaction from corruption, deception, and exploitation, Satan watches and waits for opportunities to ply his predetermined trade as he heads toward his predetermined end.

Rev 12:10-12  Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.  (11)  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.  (12)  Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."
 

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Was it just the act of disobedience in eating the forbidden tree?  Or was there a spiritual element and the forbidden tree's fruit represents something spiritual that man took into him, thus corrupting God's creation both man himself and the earthly creation God gave man dominion over?

I definitely think spiritual.... the realm of heaven is one of spiritual essence and that's where it all began... Jesus spoke of the dough and leaven as an understanding how sin multiplies once introduced into the dough... The creation itself changed as a result of God's cursing of it due to the spiritual death of Adam and Eve... I also think of the serpent and due to it's cooperation it was physically cursed...

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I've always thought that God used the picture of fruit, that is, something that is eaten, to show it is something that got inside of man.  As is said:  We are what we eat.

Yes, I think the dough and leaven would also support the entering in idea... Plus we are commanded to be KEEPING filled with The Holy Spirit so that we walk in The Spirit and not in the flesh... Prayer, obedience, meditation upon Scripture, searching for answers that arise in our heart from Scripture, learning the value of Spiritual food more than physical food so that we too might not turn stones to bread even though our body may be screaming to fill it... etc. 

I tell my children in children's worship that if they focus upon that which God has told them He 'IS' not keeping and neglect that which He has said will exist with Him for all eternity -who's responsible for what is stored in themselves? This helps them see the real battle between flesh and spirit...

[enoob57]

58 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Very sneaky, very cunning, very sly and crafty, getting satisfaction from corruption, deception, and exploitation, Satan watches and waits for opportunities to ply his predetermined trade as he heads toward his predetermined end.

not to jump to conclusions could you expound on this a bit more?