Remember the sabath day

[Pilgrim7]

Shilo,

You wrote:

'I bet I can find all kinds of Torah commandments that you don't observe, while you look down your self-righteous snoot at those who do not choose to keep the the 7th day of the week Sabbath.'

I'm sure glad that you aren't self righteous and jdugmental and that you don't accuse anyone of anything.

God Bless,

Dennis

Edited November 24, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[Guest shiloh357]

I have judged no one. I have quoted Scripture.

'You say that the Sabbath is not a sign of sanctification.'

God says in 'sola scriptura' that:

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY SABBATHS ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

First all, don't EVEN try the Sola Scriptura thing with me. You don't understand the doctrine well enough to use it. This is not a Sola Scriptura issue.

Secondly, my point was that Sabbath is not a sign of sanctification for the believer. It was a sign of sanctification for the nation of Israel. I was speaking within the context of the spiritual sanctification of the believer. You cannot apply this to modern believer since the passage simply indicates that it was visible sign that God had set Israel apart as his covenant representative within the community of nations.

What are we sanctified by as believers? We are sanctified by the Truth (John 17:9), by the Holy Spirit (Romans 15:16), through the offering of Christ on the cross (Hebrews 10:10), the word of God (Ephesians 5:26), the blood of the covenant (Hebrews 10:29, 13:12), and ultimately by God the Father (Jude 1). The sign of our sanctification is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by whom we are sealed (Ephesians. 1:13,14).

I also asked a question which you have failed to answer. Have we reached a point where quoting scripture is considered judging. The scripture states that sin is transgression of the law and we all know that that statement refers especially to the Ten Commandments.

Quoting Scripture isn't judging but I am not referring to any Scripture you quoted. I am referring to direct statements by you. Here is what you said:

Its an issue of sin and obedience, not of work. I notice you didn't address the issue of worshiping on another day, a day of Pagan origin for which there is no command from God. If there is no need for a worship day, why do most worship on Sunday which has always been the worship day of the Pagan Sun Worshipers from the time of Babylon. If believers worship 24/7, then what is the need of a worship day.

Yes each is to be convinced in his own mind. How is he convinced. He is convinced, not by man, not by the church, but by the word of God. In the New Covenant God writes HIS LAW in the heart and mind, not the traditions of man or what a man chooses to obey. God has never left obedience to His Moral Laws as an option to the beleiver's conscience.

So, here you you have made it clear that you consider the Sabbath Compulsory. Those who opt for Sunday are now on par with pagan Sun worshippers, at worst. They are now imitating the ancient Babylonians according to you.

As for choosing a day of worship.... The Sabbath is not a day of worship; it is a day of rest. EVERYDAY is a day of worship. The Sabbath was nothing more than a day of rest. From the Jewish perspective, the Sabbath is "an age within a day." It is prophecy of the world or age to come when all will be set aright, and the universe will be returned to the pristine conditions that existed in before the fall. But as for worship, it is not confined to a single day or event. Worship is a lifestyle fit for a kingdom of priests.

Now, you went on to say:

What amazes me is why believers do not love to keep God's Commandments, especially the day Jesus blessed and made Holy for all mankind to worship. If God writes HIS LAWS in the heart of all New Covenant believers, then they should love to keep them. Why would they love an institution of man, instituted in Babylon by Nimrod, the enemy of God, and hate God's Holy Sabbath day, created by Jesus whom they profess to love.

First of all, you put most of Christianity on par with paganism of ancient Babylon because they don't opt for the Friday night to Saturday night Sabbath. So, according to you, they are imitating pagan sun worship.

Secondly, you accuse modern believers as not loving God's commandments simply because they don't observe the Sabbath.

Now you accuse them of loving paganism and hating the Sabbath and then imply that this sets them at odds with Jesus. You directly and most strongly imply almost to the point of accusation that to not keep the Sabbath is grounds upon which to question their faith and the genuineness of their profession of love for Jesus. In essence, they cannot love Jesus and not keep the Sabbath. That is going beyond the pale of Scripture, and amounts to judging. It is clear from your direct remarks

Shilo,

You wrote:

'I bet I can find all kinds of Torah commandments that you don't observe, while you look down your self-righteous snoot at those who do not choose to keep the the 7th day of the week Sabbath.'

I'm sure glad that you aren't self righteous and jdugmental and that you don't accuse anyone of anything.

There is nothing self righteous in what I said. My point was, if we went down the list of commandments given at Sinai, I bet I can find several that you do not opt to keep. It points to the obvious internal inconsistency in your position. You would fight tooth and nail to prove the need for compulsory Sabbath observance, but would not apply that same posture towards other commandments, such as the laws of Niddah (menstruation purity laws).

Tell me, would and your wife perform those purification laws, or do you not love God's commandments enough to obey Him in that area as well?

[angels4u]

abbershay,

I think you made up your mind already that you DON'T WANT TO LISTEN to anybody who does not agree with you.

All I can say is that you are trying to preach a different gospel here which is not from God and if you keep talking the way you do you will soon be gone from this board.

Examine yourself...............how do you feel about your dreams?

I went to your website.

You are accusing Shiloh??

I'm sure glad that you aren't self righteous and jdugmental and that you don't accuse anyone of anything.

you have alot to learn and one is to be humble

[caldog]

Many say to celebrate the resurection, sounds good but it seems to me to be out of tradition. We gather everyday here online in Yeshuas name amen?

amen

[abbershay]

abbershay,

I think you made up your mind already that you DON'T WANT TO LISTEN to anybody who does not agree with you.

All I can say is that you are trying to preach a different gospel here which is not from God and if you keep talking the way you do you will soon be gone from this board.

Examine yourself...............how do you feel about your dreams?

I went to your website.

You are accusing Shiloh??

I'm sure glad that you aren't self righteous and jdugmental and that you don't accuse anyone of anything.

you have alot to learn and one is to be humble

I am really confused about what you are talking about . what am i not listening to? And why the veiled threat?

As for the dream which dream are you referring too?

[Avidan]

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [feast day] or a new moon or sabbaths.

----- Colossians 2:16 NKJV (emphasis added)

Christians are not under the law of Moses.

It's nobody's business as for how you chose to keep the sabbath.

That's only between two persons, and that's you and God.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them My sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

De 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

This---is referring to US also---because we are part of the ---Body of Christ.(known as "church)

this next one HOWEVER---pertains to ---ISRAEL ONLY....

The 4th commandment

De 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

De 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

De 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

De 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The entire Nation---the edah----WAS BOND SERVANTS in Egypt.

the QAHAL---has been FREED, IN MESSIAH CHRIST.

we now observe sabbath 24/7.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Avidan

[Pilgrim7]

The Sabbath is not just a day of rest. It is the day that Jesus sanctified, set apart for a Holy use at creation. It is the only day that Jesus created Holy, thus it is the Lord'd Holy day. The word means to cease, not just rest. God was not tired after He created the world, He was finished so he ceased His work of creation. Thus it is a sign of creation and perfection for everything He made was perfect.

It wasn't a day of rest for Adam, for he wasn't tired. God ceased so that He could fellowship with His creation and instruct him in righteousness and holiness. Adam needed to be instructed as to why he had been created. He needed to understand his place in the kingdom of God. He responded to this love of God and his instruction with worship and adoration which is the natural response for having received the gift of life.

You see, when a day is set apart for a Holy use, then it is to be kept holy by being engaged in holy pursuits. Thus we have instruction in righteousness and its resultant adoration and worship the natural activity of keeping the day Holy. You see worship is not a form, or a program, but the supernatural result of the 'love of God shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Spirit'. This is accomplished by ceasing from all secular endeavors in order to have unbroken fellowship with God, instruction from His word and the outflowing of worship from a heart that Loves God with all.

Its a nice thought to say that we worship 24/7, but we all know that the stress and pressures of daily life do not allow for such. That comes in the millenineal reign of Jesus during the last 1000 years. After 6000 years of sin and evil, the earth and the saved get their Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest (SABBATH) to the people of God.

4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Here God says that faith labors to enter in to the millenneal Sabbath rest of God and so the Holy Sabbath of Jesus remains. Even then God's Holy Sabbath will be kept, just as Adam and Eve kept it before the fall. The restoration of the True Sabbath of God is what will bring many of Israel to Christ before the return of Jesus and His millennial Sabbath reign.

Avidan:

Collosians says let no person judge you, it doesn't say don't let God's word judge you. God's law has judged already. If I keep another day than what God has commanded, then some man has judged for me, some church, some pastor, maybe my parents, but definitely not God through His word.

God bless,

Dennis

Edited November 25, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[Guest shiloh357]

The word means to cease, not just rest. God was not tired after He created the world, He was finished so he ceased His work of creation. Thus it is a sign of creation and perfection for everything He made was perfect.

God commaned the Sabbath as an acknowledgement of Him as creator. This does not speak to the issue of whether the Sabbath day is a compulsory observance made mandatory for NT believers.

It wasn't a day of rest for Adam, for he wasn't tired.

Adam was enter into God's rest. In this is it is picture of salvation.

Its a nice thought to say that we worship 24/7, but we all know that the stress and pressures of daily life do not allow for such.

It not merely a nice thought. We to commanded that in everything we do we are to do it unto the Lord. As such everyday is an opportunity of worship. Our actions are to worship. Everything we do unto the Lord is our worship. Worship, in the Bible has NEVER been limited to a single day or single event. Worship, as a kingdom of priests, is our daily duty.

Again, there is nothing in the New Testament that tells us that Sabbath obersvance is mandatory for the believer. There is nothing wrong with a believer keeping the Sabbath on a regular basis, and I will defend their right in Christ to do so, tooth and nail. I have vigorously defended Sabbath obersvance many times on this board. I will not accept that it is 100% mandatory, however.

[BlindSeeker]

. . . Again, there is nothing in the New Testament that tells us that Sabbath obersvance is mandatory for the believer.

Greeting Shilo,

It is the absence of instruction in the NT which would negate the Sabbath that is the issue. We are to remember "the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [For] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Where is the justification for the change of day? I cannot find it.

Regarding Colossians 3:16 and 17, it was not referring to the weekly Sabbath, rather the high holy days or the feast days. Those

[Pilgrim7]

William/BlindSeeker,

Thanks for the support on the truth of God's Holy Sabbath Day.

God Bless,

Dennis

Edited November 26, 2005 by Pilgrim7