Remember the sabath day

[other one]

BTW the noahide laws are not from the bible and stem from places we don't want to go to here unless you want to get into mystical Judaism and I don't think it is a good idea to go there.

Sam

The Talmud lists seven laws given to Adam and Noah, which are collectively referred to as the Noahide Laws or the Laws of Noah. These laws are based on an exegesis of Genesis 2:16 and 9:4-6. The laws include: establishing a legal system; refraining from idolatry, blasphemy, murder, robbery, adultery; and not eating from an animal while it still lives. There is certainly nothing sinister or mystical in these laws and they are consistent with what is taught in Scripture. The point being made is they do not include keeping the sabbath because these concepts were given by God to Gentiles who were never required to keep the seventh day.

Well here are those two sets of scripture:

Gen 2:16-17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die. "

NASB

Gen 9:3-7

4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 And surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man.

6 "Whoever sheds man's blood,

By man his blood shall be shed,

For in the image of God He made man.

NASB

I have been told that these 7 laws come from the exegesis of these two scriptures, but I really don't understand how one could possibly come to that conclusion. Of course those pesky Pharasees seem to come up with a lot of things that don't make much sense when you just look at the Word. Stay away from the teachings of these people. Jesus said that they were of the devil and I tend to understand why.

You can scan through the old testament and find places that these laws are mentioned here and there, but you can do that for just about anything that you might want to prove.

And if you think it isn't sinister, well you need to read through this web page for a bit of eye opening. Well that site gets a bit anti-semitic so Just go to google and search out these laws and see where it leads you...

I had to delete the site for some urls that lead to other things.

[Pilgrim7]

Brothers and Sisters,

The Scriptures have the answer,

2Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I think that we need to take this Scripture apart verse by verse.

Verse 13:

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. (there is going to be much deception in Christianity. Now Paul goes on to tell us how to combat that deception)

Verse 14:

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them]; (What things did he need to continue in)

Verse 15:

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (These Scriptures that he had known from a child were the 'Law and the Prophets', the Old Testament which were the only Scriptures in existence at that time. The New Testament had not been written yet. If fact this letter of Pauls was not Scripture at that time)

Verse 16:

All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (Here we see that all the Old Testament Scripture, inspired by God Himself, was to be used to for reproof of sin, correction of deception and delusion and instruction in righteousness and holiness.)

Verse 17:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (So this Old Testament Scripture is going to make the Man of God, both Jew and Gentile, perfect or complete unto all good works which includes overcoming sin, which is the transgression of Gods Law. How is this done, through reproof, correction of false doctrine and instruction is every word of God unto righteousness)

Here Paul in instructing a Gentile convert who had been taught the Scriptures from a child by his grandmother. This Gentile convert was sent by Paul to different Churches, one of them being the Church at Ephesus, a predominantly Gentile church, to teach them and keep them from the multitude of deceptions and aberrant 'winds of doctrine' that were blowing already then because of the 'falling away' that had already begun. He did this through the Old Testament Scriptures, the Law and Prophets, including Psalms. He never refered to the Talmud except to say that they had turned the religious leaders into a brood of vipers.

God Bless you brothers and sisters,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

Brothers and Sisters,

Paul in Hebrews tells us of the change in the law. It would be best if we went to the Scriptures only for our truth. The Talmud, along with the Religious leaders, both Scribes and Pharaseees were the prime reasons that Israel failed to recognize God in the flesh when he stood before them and rejected and killed their own Creator.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people received the law (Notice what law it is talking about, that which was received under the Levitical Priesthood, not the Ten Commandments), what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath [he was made priest]: 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 7:26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Here is the change in the law, here is what was done away with, the priesthood and the sacrifices. There is now no need for sacrifices, and thus no need for a priesthood. All the religious system having to do with sacrifices has been done away with, including feast days and their ceremonial sabbaths which were all tied to the Sacrificial System and their sacrifices. Jesus was the fulfillment of the Relgious/sacrificial system. This was the yoke of bondage, the wall of partition between the Jews and the Gentiles.

THE CHANGE IN THE MORAL LAW:

Now as to the change of the Moral Law. The Moral Law was not changed, only where it was written and kept. Jesus 'magnified it and made it honorable' through the New Covenant when He writes it in the believers heart through the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 42:21). In the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments were written on Stone and kept in the Ark of the Covenant. In the New Covenant, the Moral Laws are written in the heart of the believer, the Living Ark or temple of God. What know ye not, that ye are the Temple of God.

NEW COVENANT:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put MY LAWin their inward parts, and write it in their hearts (so they will love my law and keep it, which they failed to do in the Old Covenant); and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

PAUL ELABORATES ON THE NEW COVENANT:

2Cor 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (here we see the New Covenant experience, the law of God written the heart) 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God; 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away: 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.

The Ten Commandments, written in stone, were a covenant of comdemnation in that they identified sin and its penalty, death in the Lake of Fire. They condemned all flesh so the 'the whole world would become guilty before God'. They still exist to show people sin. Yet the person in the New Covenant has God's will and law written in His/her heart, and thus does not need Ten Commandments to condemn their sin because they have been forgiven of their sins and have entered into a covenent to do righteousness 'even as He is righteous'. They are no longer under the comdemnation of the law, for as Paul says in Roman's 8:

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (You see the Ten Commandments are the Law of Sin and death. If you sin, you die. When a person is forgiven, they are set free from the condemnation) 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, (The Ten Commandments were powerless to forgive and to enter the heart and change our nature, only the Spirit could do that.) God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (those who follow the Spirit in righteousness). 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death (in the Lake of fire); but to be spiritually minded [is] life (Eternal life)and peace. 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (this was the problem with the Old Covenant, the carnal mind is not subject to the Law of God, that is why the Israelites continually rebelled against God.) 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. (Notice the connection that God always makes between the Spirit and righteousness, which is living by ebery word that proceeds from God) 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh (which is sin and disobedience), ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (kill, destroy) the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

God bless,

Dennis

Edited December 5, 2005 by Pilgrim7

[BlindSeeker]

Thank you Dennis. Both for the content and the spirit in which you presented it.

Peace

[JesusisGod2]

Thank you Dennis. Both for the content and the spirit in which you presented it.

Peace

Man, I second this statement by BlindSeeker.

Well done, The Spirit of God, speaks through your post Dennis, I was very much enlightened.

I see the Sabbath rest that we enter into is rest from our works and depedance and faith upon the works that Christ has already done. This is the rest Hebrews speaks of and this what the born-again experience is all about.

Thanks for the super post.

[Andrew Withall]

AMEN! (horizoneast)

Could not have said it better myself!

Thankyou,

Andrew

[MrSealedEternal]

Under the New Covenant I am commanded to keep nine of the Ten Commandment laws. This is not because they were part of that law, instead, it is because they are required by the Lord in the New Testament. The NT commands no one to keep the Sabbath after the completed work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Those today who regard the keeping the Sabbath to be "a legal requirement" are relapsing into the yoke of legalism.

Not only is it a yoke of legalism, but is actually hinders salvation, since it causes people to put their faith in the keeping of laws which denies what Christ has already done for them. Most Sabbath Keepers, if you really pin them down, have faith in keeping of the law for salvation, which is a denial of Christ's sufficient atonement.

In the Book of Galatians, Paul specifically addresses a group of men who are commonly called

Edited December 6, 2005 by SealedEternal

[Pilgrim7]

JesusisGod2,

At conversion we cease from the works of the flesh, sin, for the 'Old Man' has been crucified with Christ. We don't cease from work all together but, being risen with Christ we walk in the Spirit, doing the works of the Spirit filled with the fruit of the Spirit. We do Spiritual things. There is much work of the Spirit to do. We don't enter into our full Sabbath Rest until the 1000 years rest with Christ himself in the Kingdom.

Here are some of the Spiritual works we do, Paul said that the 'Law was Spiritual' so we now keep the Law of God because as he also said, 'faith doesn't make void the law, faith establishes the Law' (Rom 3:31).

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works (works of the flesh, sin), and of faith toward God,

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

2Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [i do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

You see there is lots of work to do besides preaching the Gospel.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

[JesusisGod2]

JesusisGod2,

At conversion we cease from the works of the flesh, sin, for the 'Old Man' has been crucified with Christ. We don't cease from work all together but, being risen with Christ we walk in the Spirit, doing the works of the Spirit filled with the fruit of the Spirit. We do Spiritual things. There is much work of the Spirit to do. We don't enter into our full Sabbath Rest until the 1000 years rest with Christ himself in the Kingdom.

Here are some of the Spiritual works we do, Paul said that the 'Law was Spiritual' so we now keep the Law of God because as he also said, 'faith doesn't make void the law, faith establishes the Law' (Rom 3:31).

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works (works of the flesh, sin), and of faith toward God,

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

2Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Phil 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [i do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

You see there is lots of work to do besides preaching the Gospel.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

I am in total agreement with you Dennis. I in no way meant to say that we cease from works, but we cease from our works and I had this in view to salvation. Let me clarify what I meant

When we enter into the Sabbath rest (which I was keeping in topic, not really discussing works persay) which occurs the moment we have been born again, we have ceased from our own works and rely upon and have faith in Christ finished works.

We now look to Christ who directs us and cease from works of the law for justification before the Father. Christ has finished the work of redemption and we can now enter into His

Sabbath rest through faith in Him through which we recieve justification.

Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The works we now do now are already prepared for us, we must seek out God that we should walk in them. They are from God.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world

So then we have ceased from our own works and have joined in unity with Christ and seek the works of God which He has prepared for us. So I think we are in agreement,

I was just hitting on something different in regards to the Sabbath and how we enter Gods rest throgh Jesus Christ and cease from our own works with a view to salavation. Not really on the topic of good works per say, which the only good works are works that are wrought in God through Jesus and it is allowing Jesus to work through our vessels.

In Jesus

kevin

[Guest shiloh357]

Here is the change in the law, here is what was done away with, the priesthood and the sacrifices. There is now no need for sacrifices, and thus no need for a priesthood. All the religious system having to do with sacrifices has been done away with, including feast days and their ceremonial sabbaths which were all tied to the Sacrificial System and their sacrifices. Jesus was the fulfillment of the Relgious/sacrificial system. This was the yoke of bondage, the wall of partition between the Jews and the Gentiles.

This is not wholly accurate. First of all the Torah was modified to account for the coming of Messiah and inclusion of the Gentiles. The "change" was simply from one priesthood to another. We still have a sacrifice, and a priesthood. The need for a sacrificial system was not abolished. We have to have a sacrificial system. The writer of Hebrews is simply making the point which elaborates upon further in chapter 8. The OT system is obsolete, but that does not do away with the need for better blood, a better sacrifice and a better priesthood.

All of the Festivals are tied to both the creation of world and the deliverance from Egypt. They are no less important than the Sabbath, and do not fall under "less important" status. They are just as much a part of Torah as the Sabbath. God makes no distinction in terms of importance. You cannot apply a different standard to them than you do the Sabbath. The Sabbath is itself an "appointed time" It is one of God's "moedim" just like Passover, Shavuot or Succot. Read Leviticus 23. The Sabbath has equal status with the rest of God's moedim, His Appointed Times.

The Torah is not a smorgasbord where you can pick and choose according to your taste. The standard you apply for one of the moedim, has to be internally consistent for the rest. Nowhere does God place the "Ten commandments" as being superior or more important than the rest. The Ten Commandments are only a small portion of God's Torah, and serve as a summary of the entire Torah.

Furthermore the Torah was not the yoke of bondage, nor was it the wall of partition between Gentiles and Jews. That is simply absurd. To call God's Torah "bondage" does a great deal of violence to the Scriptures. The Bible connects the Torah given at Sinai with freedom. The Torah was given to redeemed community that had been released from bondage. God did not put them under bondage again. It was "bondage" that kept them from being able to keep God's Torah. God set His people free, and then gave them His Torah in order that they would know how live in that freedom.

Secondly the "wall of partition" is a euphemism to the partition that separated the court of the Gentiles from the rest f the Temple complex. It was a superficial division that was built during the second Temple period in Herod's Temple. Nowhere is such a partition commanded in the Scripture, and did not exist in Solomon's Temple. It kept Jews and Gentiles separate as they worshipped God. The Rabbis had declared the Gentiles unclean, and Paul's point is that in Christ that superficial man-made barrier has been demolished by blood of Christ.