Some Who Call Themselves 'Christian' Will Not Inherit the Kingdom of God?

[BornAgain490]

46 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

In none of the 3 parallel passages is there any mention of discipling.  In FACT, there's 

no mention or charge to believers to "disciple others".  That is a myth passed down from those who failed to read Scripture properly.

We have scripture because the authors who wrote scripture, wrote by inspiration of God, in order for the word of God to be passed down from one generation to the next, so that God's word could go out to the entire word in order that disciples could be made.   If you doubt that, then you doubt the facts in evidence that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  (2 Timothy 3:16).  And by it disciples are made. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Show me anywhere in Paul's letters where he tried to convert unbelievers or order believers to make more believers

Paul certainly preached to unbelievers.  Acts 17:16-21.  "Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the market-place every day with those who happened to be there. 18 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” 21 Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new." 

Therefore, the only reasonable inference one can get from Paul's preaching is that his letters, while sent to congregations, were also meant for the edification of unbelievers. 

Edited December 16, 2024 by BornAgain490

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Only the faithful in Christ are heirs.  Only heirs inherit. 

If you're not an heir, just as Paul writes: you "shall not inherit the kingdom of God."  (1 Corinth. 6:10; Galatians 5:21).

If you are not an heir, just as Paul writes: you do not "have any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."  (Ephesians 5:5).

One would have to ignore or outright reject the clear words of Romans 8:17 to say this.

And, why did you ignore the 3rd parallel passage, Eph 5:5 when you cited the other 2?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

Seriously?  It's evident from scripture and  throughout history that the great commission had as its primary objective to make disciples. 

Seriously, there are just 3 mentions of the great commission, and in ALL of them, the authors made the point that ONLY "the eleven" were present. Which makes sense.  It was ONLY the original disciples/apostles that were trained personally by Jesus to evangelize and TEACH the converts.  It was never a "free-for-all" where EVERY convert was commanded to make more converts and TEACH them EVERYTHING that Jesus taught THEM.  Jesus didn't train anyone but the 11.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Not just for the first century, but for all generations that followed.

Yes, that is the error still being propagated.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  Christ made disciples and commissioned them to make disciples, who then obviously made more disciples, and for nearly 2,000 years, disciples who've been discipled have been making disciples.

Christ commissioned "the eleven" to "go into all the world", and then to "teach them everything I have taught YOU".  

Matt 28:19,20

Mark 16:14-15

Acts 1:1-2

In each passage, it is clear that Jesus gave the GC to just "the eleven".

Are you aware that the GC is NOT EVEN mentioned in ANY of the epistles?  Why would that be, IF IF IF every convert was commissioned to make more converts??  This is not a rhetorical question.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  And it continues to this day.   

Of course evangelization continues to this day.  And there is a passage in the NT that parallels the Great Commission.

Eph 4:11 - So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,

v.12 - to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

In v.11 we see the teaching gifts, for evangelization and training.

In v.12 we see the goal of these spiritual gifts;  to evangelize, make converts and then to teach them "everything" that Jesus taught the eleven.

This is the only place in the NT that relates to the Great Commission.

As it unfortunately is today, the teaching that every believer is to make a believer and to train them (for effective service) is obviously a failure anyway.  If the teaching is true, then the whole church (body of Christ) has failed, because there is very little evangelization occurring, and even LESS training/teaching.

So, since the GC wasn't for every believer, what IS the command for EVERY believer?

Col 4:6 - Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

1 Peter 3:15 - But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

iow, EVERY believer is supposed to live their life so honorably and supernaturally (filling of the Holy Spirit) that unbelievers will ASK them the reason they live that way.  And EVERY believer is supposed to (commanded) have an ANSWER to everyone.

So, how's that working out?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

The Bible is filled with consequences for unbelievers in letters written to congregations. 

So far, all you've done is make this claim.  And I've already shown the fallacy of it because in the ancient world of the 1st century, unbelievers would never join congregations of believers.  As I said and you have ignored, unbelievers would worship at their neighborhood temple where there was a lot of ritual sexual activity going on.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

For ex:  Revelation is written to congregations in Asia minor.  If  there is no reason to write to those congregations of the consequences of unbelief, kindly answer why Revelation is replete with consequences for unbelievers. 

Revelation was NEVER about the "consequences of unbelief".  It was written to REVEAL the COMING MESSIAH and what would occur before He came back.

In the 7 letters, the issue was about reward for faithful service or loss thereof.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

FreeGrace said:

I've already addressed this.  His point was that they should NO LONGER live like they used to.

No. 

You can disagree all you want, but truth is truth.  What I said above is OBVIOUS.

The problem is that you have been taught that "real" Christians all act great and don't sin much, and the sin isn't all that visible.  Nonsense.  ALL the warnings in the NT are directed to believers warning of the consequences of bad choices.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

The point Paul is making is that when they were born again in Christ, they came out a life of ungodliness and unrighteousness, the result of which is they are washed, sanctified,  and justified. 

Yes, "washed, sanctified, and justified".  Those words speak of believer's POSITION IN CHRIST.  Ever heard of "positional truth"?  It seems you have not.  

At the moment of saving faith, the Holy Spirit places the believer into union with Christ, and seals the believer 'in Him'.  That means every believer shares, positionally, in all that Christ has.

However, there is another side of the coin.  Spiritual growth is commanded for every believer.  That requires being in fellowship with the Lord, and being filled with the Holy Spirit.  Without these things, the believer will only produce human morality.

Do you know what God thinks of human morality?

Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Do you know what the literal Hebrew for "filthy rags" really means?  Used menstrual rags!!!

Apart from the filling of the Holy Spirit, ALL moral good comes from the human nature, and STINKS to God.  I wonder how many believers even know any of this?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

There are many believers who have no truth in them.

False.

That would be amusing if it weren't so tragic!  I already pointed out what Paul wrote 4 times in 4 epistles:  "I would not have you IGNORANT of this, brothers".  Paul didn't want believers to be stupid about things.  

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  To be born again is to be in Christ. If you are in Christ, then Christ is in you.  If Christ is in you, then the truth is in you, because Christ is the truth. 

Aren't you aware that believers are commanded to grow up spiritually?  Just as humans need to grow up physically, mentally and emotionally, believers must grow up spiritually.  

The author of Hebrews chastised his audience for their FAILURE to grow up.

Heb 5:11 - We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.

12 - In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 - Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

14 - But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

Given your views and responses, it would seem you AREN'T aware of spiritual growth necessary in the Christian life.  It sure isn't automatic.  It takes LEARNING.  That is what the word "disciple" means;  a learner.

How many believers are LEARNERS today?  From the looks of things, like these kind of forums, and just visiting various churches, not that much.  How sad.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

 

There are many believers who have no truth in them.  That doesn't mean they aren't saved.

If they don't have the truth in them, they aren't saved. 

This opinion is refuted by the verses I've shared and what Paul wrote about his audience NOT being IGNORANT.  Of course believers can be ignorant.

It seems you view everything in "blanket" terms.  

There is gospel truth, which is saving faith.  Then, there is lifestyle truth, that being of trusting God for all your needs/etc.  

Why would Paul and the author of Hebrews use terms like babies and infants to describe believers who weren't growing up?

Do you really think that when a person comes to saving faith in Christ, everything is all hunky dory?

No.  A new believer is as ignorant as a newborn baby. Both need to grow up.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

In none of the 3 parallel passages is there any mention of discipling.  In FACT, there's 

no mention or charge to believers to "disciple others".  That is a myth passed down from those who failed to read Scripture properly.

We have scripture because the authors who wrote scripture, wrote by inspiration of God, in order for the word of God to be passed down from one generation to the next, so that God's word could go out to the entire word in order that disciples could be made.

Why would you quote me and then completely ignore all of my points?  You haven't even tried to refute any of my points, but just dismiss them.

2 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

   If you doubt that, then you doubt the facts in evidence that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."  (2 Timothy 3:16).  And by it disciples are made. 

I don't doubt your point, but your point isn't relevant to the fact that all believers need to grow up spiritually, in order to know how to live their lives.

Christianity isn't human morality.  It's much much more than that.  It is living a supernatural life through the power of the Holy Spirit by being filled with the Spirit.

Through my decades of participation on Christian forums, it is clear that the majority of believers don't even understand how to obey the command to be 'filled with the Spirit' per Eph 5:18.  Really sad.

Proving there is a lot of ignorance among believers.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

FreeGrace said:

Show me anywhere in Paul's letters where he tried to convert unbelievers or order believers to make more believers

Paul certainly preached to unbelievers.  Acts 17:16-21. 

Of course he did.  He was COMMISSIONED to do so as an apostle.  The entire book of Acts is about the "acts of the apostles" and how they fulfilled the Great Commission.

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

"Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the market-place every day with those who happened to be there. 18 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” 21 Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new."

Yes, Paul was an apostle, and he "made disciples" and then he taught them everything that Jesus taught him.

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

Therefore, the only reasonable inference one can get from Paul's preaching is that his letters, while sent to congregations, were also meant for the edification of unbelievers. 

There is no "reasonable inference" from the fact that Paul preached to unbelievbers.  That was his commission from Jesus, as it was to "the eleven" that I've already pointed out.

And to say that his preaching was "meant for the edification of unbelievers" is beyond reason.  There is NO edification of unbelievers.  They need to be converted FIRST before they can be edified. 

The word "edification" deals with spiritual growth, which isn't applicable to unbelievers.