Some Who Call Themselves 'Christian' Will Not Inherit the Kingdom of God?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

Christianity isn't human morality.  

Yet the immoral cannot be called Christian.

Yet Christians CAN be immoral.  Like King David was, when he raped Bathsheba and murdered her husband.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

 It is living a supernatural life through the power of the Holy Spirit by being filled with the Spirit.

Precisely why the ungodly and unrighteous, who mind only the things of the flesh and not the things of the Spirit, will not inherit the kingdom of God. 

Apparently you have no idea what I have said here.  Believers ARE "minding the things of the flesh" when they either grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quench the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).  

Aren't you aware of these spiritual principles?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

FreeGrace said:

This opinion is refuted by the verses I've shared and what Paul wrote about his audience NOT being IGNORANT.  Of course believers can be ignorant.

Believers can be deaf, dumb, and blind, but everyone born again in Christ has the truth - Jesus Christ, and they know it.

Yes, they have the truth of the gospel.  But they, like newborn babes, are ignorant of spiritual life just as a newborn is ignorant of physical life.

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  Maybe you don't, or maybe you know someone else who claims to be in Christ but doesn't have any truth in them.  If they don't have truth, which is Christ,  then they don't have Christ, nor are they in Christ. 

Ignorance is lack of truth.  And you argue against there being any ignorant believers???  

I'm surprised that anyone could be that naive.  There are believers who believe that salvation can be lost.  Do they have "the truth"?  No, they are ignorant of that truth.

The same can be said of any biblical doctrine.

[BornAgain490]

16 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Maybe and then again maybe not…allow me to explain my thinking here...large subject and maybe not as simply cut and dried as one might think.

Interestingly…being “born again” in that verse allows one to “see” the kingdom of God as the Lord put it. “See” in that context can also mean to “perceive”…encompassing both the physical act of seeing with the eyes and the metaphorical sense of perceiving or understanding with the mind.

This was spoken to a Pharisee…a ruler of the Jews…who by his own admission…“Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him”…had very likely “perceived” the identity of the Lord Yahshua who…in that moment…is the Kingdom of God on earth.

It is as though the Lord is telling Nicodemus…if you truly see me as I am…via your faith…you are “born again.” Well…if that were true…that would have put Nicodemus in a precarious situation…as a “ruler of the Jews and a Pharisee”…no?

It could have likely meant a significant “change” to Nicodemus’ livelihood & lifestyle…and based upon how the conversation progressed…Yahshua appeared fully intent on challenging Nicodemus in this way. Here’s why I say that…”seeing”…the Kingdom of God as the Lord explains it in John…is something different than “entering” the Kingdom of God…as the Lord Yahshua will shortly explain to a now seriously intrigued Nicodemus.

Verse 5…”Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” There is “seeing” the open doorway and then there is the “obedience” of acting upon the Lord’s Word…by “walking through”…so to speak…the open doorway into the spirit realm known as the Kingdom of heaven…to meet the Father of creation…by receiving His Holy Spirit into his human spirit.

“Entering” describes both physical and metaphorical entry. Physically, it can refer to entering a place, such as a house or city. Metaphorically, it can describe entering into a state or condition, such as entering into life or the kingdom of God. The term often implies a transition from one state or place to another, highlighting the significance of the action.

My point being…the way the Lord Yahshua spells it out for Nicodemus [us] being “born again” by faith…enables one to ”see or perceive” the Kingdom of God [Christ]…and “being born of the water and the Spirit” via direct obedience to the now “seen” Word of God…causes one to enter into the Kingdom of God.

This is similar to when the disciples were gathered in Jerusalem after His resurrection…where the Lord appeared to them and “breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit”…in commissioning them in John 20…just prior to His ascension.

Then subsequently telling these same disciples in Acts 1…”but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now”…followed by…”you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

So in this case His disciples were clearly “born again” when they received the Holy Spirit.  I understand the uniqueness of this scenario…the process of John 3 is still the same. There are other similar examples of this “seeing and then entering” concept…however…back to your point BornAgain490.

“You either are, or you are not born again. There is no 'half-way there', no 'on the fence', no 'I think I am'.  If you are born again, you know you are born again.”

So realistically…imagine the potential for people to be “born again” thus enabling them to “see” the Kingdom of God…while not having been “born of the water and the Spirit” thus not being empowered by the Holy Spirit enabling them to “enter” the Kingdom of God.

Haven’t you ever seen “born again” people with no spiritual power to grow and mature? The church is replete with them…are they born again one may ask…yes some of them are…they see the Lord for who He is. Many churches teach that this is all one needs…less teach the need for baptism and the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

There is much more to this…like what happens to those who are born again but not empowered for one example?

Tatwo…

I think you've made John 3:3 and 5 more complex than it actually is. 

In John 3:3, Jesus says you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. The word "see" also means to experience.  How would one experience the kingdom but by entering it. 

In John 3:5, Jesus elaborates on what He means by "born again."  Born of water could mean baptismal immersion, or passing through the birth canal after the water breaks in childbirth.  There's a debate on which is the  correct interpretation, but v.6 is helpful. 

There is no debate on what being born of the Holy Spirit means. Jesus even explains how the Holy Spirit moves in v.8.  

Seeing and entering encompass the same idea, i.e., inheriting.  The heir enters and sees his inherited estate; or, the heir sees and enters his inherited estate.  Seems rather synonymous and complimentary. 

[BornAgain490]

6 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Apparently you have no idea what I have said here.  Believers ARE "minding the things of the flesh" when they either grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30) or quench the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).  

Aren't you aware of these spiritual principles?

Backslidden Christains repent,  as we see in king David. 

[BornAgain490]

5 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Ignorance is lack of truth.

Ignorance is lack of knowing. All Christians know they are in Christ. 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

FreeGrace said:

There is gospel truth, which is saving faith.  Then, there is lifestyle truth, that being of trusting God for all your needs/etc.

There is truth. Period.

So you don't differentiate between saving and lifestyle faith, which is the faith that gets the believer through the day??  

If you think they are the same thing, then HOW one lives their life determines whether they go to heaven or hell.  Are you actually comfortable with that claim?

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  That truth is Jesus Christ. If you are in Christ then you have the truth and you'll know the truth, and you'll be known by the truth. 

Of course He is.  But it is rather obvious that you have no idea what "lifestyle faith" even is.  It is the faith that the Exodus generation didn't have.  Yet, Paul made very clear that they were SAVED.

1 Cor 10:1-5

1 - For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.

2 - They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

3 - They all ate the same spiritual food

4 - and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

5 - Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Period.  They were saved and yet they failed to have lifestyle faith.  They complained all the time.  And some  of them, 23,000, rose up to "play", meaning have a full on orgy.  So God disciplined them with physical death.  Removed them from earth.

If you don't believe that God uses physical death as part of His discipline toward His children, read 1 Cor 11:30.

 

[BornAgain490]

7 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are believers who believe that salvation can be lost.  Do they have "the truth"?  No, they are ignorant of that truth

And there are those that believe in a secret pretrib rapture, an event that in not explicitly mentioned in scripture. 

[FreeGrace]

59 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

One would have to ignore or outright reject the clear words of Romans 8:17 to say this.

And, why did you ignore the 3rd parallel passage, Eph 5:5 when you cited the other 2?

Again, only heirs inherit, and only born again in Christ are heirs. 

Of course onluy heirs inherit.  That's the meaning of the words.  But Rom 8:17b is a CONDITIONAL CLAUSE, which you conveniently ignore because you're unable to explain that which refutes your ideas.

And why ignore Eph 5:5, which proves that "having no inheritance IN IN IN the kingdom" is the result of disobedience, not refusing admittance into the kingdom.

[BornAgain490]

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

So you don't differentiate between saving and lifestyle faith, which is the faith that gets the believer through the day??  

If you think they are the same thing, then HOW one lives their life determines whether they go to heaven or hell.  Are you actually comfortable with that claim?

Of course He is.  But it is rather obvious that you have no idea what "lifestyle faith" even is.  It is the faith that the Exodus generation didn't have.  Yet, Paul made very clear that they were SAVED.

1 Cor 10:1-5

1 - For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.

2 - They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

3 - They all ate the same spiritual food

4 - and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

5 - Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Period.  They were saved and yet they failed to have lifestyle faith.  They complained all the time.  And some  of them, 23,000, rose up to "play", meaning have a full on orgy.  So God disciplined them with physical death.  Removed them from earth.

If you don't believe that God uses physical death as part of His discipline toward His children, read 1 Cor 11:30.

 

I received saving faith from the Lord the moment I was born again, and that is the faith by which I live my life, knowing that His promises are true, and that the good work He began in me He will complete.