Christmas

[Jean Beck]

 

 

 

Christmas

The true meaning of Christmas is love. John 3:16-17 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." The true meaning of Christmas is the celebration of this incredible act of love.

The true meaning of Christmas is love. God loved His own and provided a way—the only Way—for us to spend eternity with Him. He gave His only Son to take our punishment for our sins. He paid the price in full, and we are free from condemnation when we accept that free gift of love. "But God demonstrated His own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

We celebrate Christmas because, as the angel said, “A Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.” The three titles the angel applies to Jesus are important. Jesus is the Savior who delivers us from sin and death (Matthew 1:21). He is the human Messiah (or Christ) who fulfills the Law and the Prophets, showing that God is faithful (see Matthew 5:17). And He is the divine Lord who has entered our world: the Almighty has taken on human flesh; God and man have been fused together in an indivisible, eternal bond; God is truly with us (see Matthew 1:23).

In celebrating Christmas, we celebrate the Savior, because we needed deliverance. We celebrate the Christ in whom all of God’s promises are “Yes” and “Amen” (2 Corinthians 1:20). We celebrate the Lord who in humility took on “the very nature of a servant” for our sakes (see Philippians 2:6–8).
We celebrate Christmas because it was at Christmastime that the Rescuer of all mankind came to save us from the hopeless situation we were in. God did not stay in heaven; He came down to where we are.

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve fell. Down they went, dragging all humanity with them into the darkness and death of sin. And what did God do? He did not tell us to find our own way out of the mess we were in, and He did more than shout down happy thoughts to us from heaven. No, He came down to where we were and got us. That’s what Christmas is all about—God’s coming down to rescue us, to do whatever it took to deliver us from sure death.

 

[Luther]

2 hours ago, Jean Beck said:

 

 

 

Christmas

The true meaning of Christmas is love. John 3:16-17 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." The true meaning of Christmas is the celebration of this incredible act of love.

The true meaning of Christmas is love. God loved His own and provided a way—the only Way—for us to spend eternity with Him. He gave His only Son to take our punishment for our sins. He paid the price in full, and we are free from condemnation when we accept that free gift of love. "But God demonstrated His own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

We celebrate Christmas because, as the angel said, “A Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.” The three titles the angel applies to Jesus are important. Jesus is the Savior who delivers us from sin and death (Matthew 1:21). He is the human Messiah (or Christ) who fulfills the Law and the Prophets, showing that God is faithful (see Matthew 5:17). And He is the divine Lord who has entered our world: the Almighty has taken on human flesh; God and man have been fused together in an indivisible, eternal bond; God is truly with us (see Matthew 1:23).

In celebrating Christmas, we celebrate the Savior, because we needed deliverance. We celebrate the Christ in whom all of God’s promises are “Yes” and “Amen” (2 Corinthians 1:20). We celebrate the Lord who in humility took on “the very nature of a servant” for our sakes (see Philippians 2:6–8).
We celebrate Christmas because it was at Christmastime that the Rescuer of all mankind came to save us from the hopeless situation we were in. God did not stay in heaven; He came down to where we are.

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve fell. Down they went, dragging all humanity with them into the darkness and death of sin. And what did God do? He did not tell us to find our own way out of the mess we were in, and He did more than shout down happy thoughts to us from heaven. No, He came down to where we were and got us. That’s what Christmas is all about—God’s coming down to rescue us, to do whatever it took to deliver us from sure death.

 

Jean, I feel like we are at the point in time where whatever Christian message we had in Christmas is overtaken in the society of greed. People just care about the gifts under the tree. Maybe ( some)  Christians wake up thinking.....yes, birth of Christ. 

I suggest we move the " celebration" of the birth of Jesus in it's more accurate time frame, about mid October, and let the pagan celebration remain Dec. 25th. That way there won't be this "moral struggle" every year with " keeping Christ in Christmas". 

[Tristen]

On 12/27/2024 at 2:41 AM, Luther said:

I suggest we move the " celebration" of the birth of Jesus in it's more accurate time frame, about mid October, and let the pagan celebration remain Dec. 25th. That way there won't be this "moral struggle" every year with " keeping Christ in Christmas". 

Hi Luther,

There are earlier records of Christians celebrating the incarnation of Christ on December 25th, then there are for any pagan festivals (e.g. Sol Invictus) on this date. The pre-Christian festival, Saturnalia, ended a few days before Dember 25.

Which is to say that the date we celebrate Christmas doesn't matter (in terms of "keeping Christ in Christmas") - since regardless, the anti-Christ spirit governing the world will continue in his attempt to remove "Christ" from every Christian tradition and all public mention. At least with Christmas still being celebrated in the West, we have an opportunity to remind the world why we are celebrating. However, once we start moving dates around, we risk losing any remnant of social recognition for Christmas.

 

 

[D. Adrien]

The mixing of paganism with Christianity is probably viewed as defilement by God Almighty as it was by the nation of Israel in the wilderness after leaving Egypt. That first generation perished in the wilderness for rebellion and idolatry, and in the N.T. it's stated that their sins are an example for us today in the church era. Recall also that God is the same today as He was yesterday and will also be tomorrow. Why be a rebel?

[Luther]

17 hours ago, Tristen said:

Hi Luther,

There are earlier records of Christians celebrating the incarnation of Christ on December 25th, then there are for any pagan festivals (e.g. Sol Invictus) on this date. The pre-Christian festival, Saturnalia, ended a few days before Dember 25.

Which is to say that the date we celebrate Christmas doesn't matter (in terms of "keeping Christ in Christmas") - since regardless, the anti-Christ spirit governing the world will continue in his attempt to remove "Christ" from every Christian tradition and all public mention. At least with Christmas still being celebrated in the West, we have an opportunity to remind the world why we are celebrating. However, once we start moving dates around, we risk losing any remnant of social recognition for Christmas.

 

 

Okay, I think I should get really specific on how I feel at this point ( after all, Christmas is over, and now the 30 day window of finger wagging to the unsaved world on the " real reason for the season" is over). Sorry, I do tend to get cynical at times. 

I would argue for the sake of God's word that there never was His  blessing in sanctifying a particular day to  "celebrate" (physical activity) something Holy ( spiritual ) as the birth and even resurrection of Jesus Christ. The true believer "worships"  the attributes of God in their hearts. I do not believe we should ever make physical representations of God ( i. e. manger scenes, pictures, movies, statues etc. ) or any other people in the Bible, which are  "graven images" or any  "likeness or thing" that we "serve" or give service to. God is a jealous God ( Exodus 20:3-5). 

 

When we say to the world " the real meaning of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ", We are basing this claim on the origins of the tradition set forth by the Catholic Church 1700 years ago. Of course there is no Biblical basis to set forth a date for any veneration of an event in scripture. 

Nevertheless with the presumption of evangelistic value I  will agree that there is one aspect of  "Christmas" that I would consider relative to God's plan of salvation. That would be the presentation of His Word, spoken or written, since the only way a person can become saved is through the " hearing" of God's Word.

I'm sure that many of those ordained to eternal life "heard" God's word ( Rom. 10:17)  during the " Christmas season ", where there would be an increase in scripture usage. So am I literally contradicting myself here? Perhaps in that sense.

But it doesn't nullify all the points that I have made about the unBiblical nature of the event,  "bringing it to life", even like Noah's ark. We should never take something that God wants us to perceive from His Word and portray it through a construct of man. I stand firmly on that conviction. God works through the heart, not the eyes:

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

My suggestion for those who strongly advocate a particular " day" to  "observe" the birth of Jesus Christ would be to have it during a more accurate time of the year , most likely in the middle of October, avoiding any physical manifestations. We can therefore end the confusion, conflict and guilt of tirelessly working to " keep Christ in Christmas", and at the same time leave the traditional, pagan celebration on December 25th  (Nimrod would be so happy 🎄). 

 Unfortunately it won't end the ad nauseam flood of "Xmas"songs, over and over and over.....Merry MK ultra...LOL. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Luther
Needed to add unto it

[Luther]

11 hours ago, D. Adrien said:

The mixing of paganism with Christianity is probably viewed as defilement by God Almighty as it was by the nation of Israel in the wilderness after leaving Egypt. That first generation perished in the wilderness for rebellion and idolatry, and in the N.T. it's stated that their sins are an example for us today in the church era. Recall also that God is the same today as He was yesterday and will also be tomorrow. Why be a rebel?

So my observation is this:

Israel rejects Christ. 

Christians look to Christ for salvation. 

Why do Christians today believe that there is another way to Christ for the nation of Israel? In other words, look what Peter says to the house of Israel:

Acts 2:36-39

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[37]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[38]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[39]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

If I understand salvation correctly, NOW  is the day of salvation. NOW  is the time for ALL to repent, BEFORE Jesus comes. It will be too late after that. Peter is addressing " the house of Israel". That applies to the Jews of today as well. 

Where do we read of a special salvation program for the Jews after the day of salvation is complete? 

Matthew 4:17

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 

And when Jesus comes, it will be His second coming:

Isaiah 11:11-12

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

[12]And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Hebrews 9:27-28

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[28]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Q: Are we not all waiting for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, Jew and Gentile? 

 

[D. Adrien]

10 minutes ago, Luther said:

So my observation is this:

Israel rejects Christ. 

Christians look to Christ for salvation. 

Why do Christians today believe that there is another way to Christ for the nation of Israel? In other words, look what Peter says to the house of Israel:

Acts 2:36-39

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[37]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[38]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[39]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

If I understand salvation correctly, NOW  is the day of salvation. NOW  is the time for ALL to repent, BEFORE Jesus comes. It will be too late after that. Peter is addressing " the house of Israel". That applies to the Jews of today as well. 

Where do we read of a special salvation program for the Jews after the day of salvation is complete? 

Matthew 4:17

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 

And when Jesus comes, it will be His second coming:

Isaiah 11:11-12

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

[12]And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Hebrews 9:27-28

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[28]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Matthew 24:29-31

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Q: Are we not all waiting for the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, Jew and Gentile? 

 

Luther, you quote my post but I'm failing to see a connection. Please enlighten me.

[Luther]

1 hour ago, D. Adrien said:

Luther, you quote my post but I'm failing to see a connection. Please enlighten me.

Sure. I was observing the comments on Israel in connection with the Christian church and overlooked your response referring to Christmas. I must have been focusing on another post. Sorry. 

 

[Tristen]

4 hours ago, Luther said:

I would argue for the sake of God's word that there never was His  blessing in sanctifying a particular day to  "celebrate" (physical activity) something Holy ( spiritual ) as the birth and even resurrection of Jesus Christ

My thinking is more along the lines of the following passage:

Romans 14:5-10
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

4 hours ago, Luther said:

I do not believe we should ever make physical representations of God ( i. e. manger scenes, pictures, movies, statues etc. ) or any other people in the Bible, which are  "graven images" or any  "likeness or thing" that we "serve" or give service to. God is a jealous God ( Exodus 20:3-5). 

I have never known anyone to worship a nativity scene. I therefore don't consider this to be a cogent concern.

 

5 hours ago, Luther said:

When we say to the world " the real meaning of Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ", We are basing this claim on the origins of the tradition set forth by the Catholic Church 1700 years ago

I think your pejorative use of "Catholic Church" here is anachronistic. The Christians celebrating the incarnation of Christ in the second century were not part of the Roman (or Orthodox) "Catholic Church" - which later required a Reformation intervention. They were simply the Christians of the day who decided they would like to set aside a special day to celebrate God humbling Himself to human form (Philippians 2:8).

 

5 hours ago, Luther said:

there is no Biblical basis to set forth a date for any veneration of an event in scripture

Likewise, there is no prohibition on when, how or why we are permitted to worship Christ.

In 5 minutes from now, I could decide to set aside time to thank God for sending His Son for my salvation. I could determine to do this specifically, at the same time every year. If, down the track, this practice spread to my family as a tradition, and maybe eventually beyond my family - surely this is permissible?

 

5 hours ago, Luther said:

Nevertheless with the presumption of evangelistic value I  will agree that there is one aspect of  "Christmas" that I would consider relative to God's plan of salvation

The fact that the Western world stops to celebrate a holiday that has Christ at its core - certainly provides opportunity to make people mindful of Jesus.

- This is true despite the efforts of the world to diminish Christ at every turn.

 

5 hours ago, Luther said:

But it doesn't nullify all the points that I have made about the unBiblical nature of the event

Given the Romans 14 passage above, I don't think it's fair to characterize Christmas as "unBiblical" - as though God would be generally displeased. The celebration of Christ's birth is neither mandated, nor prohibited, by scripture. We are free to set aside a day to specifically celebrate our God this way, or not. There is no correct nor incorrect choice here.

 

5 hours ago, Luther said:

My suggestion for those who strongly advocate a particular " day" to  "observe" the birth of Jesus Christ would be to have it during a more accurate time of the year , most likely in the middle of October

I would pushback against changing the date for two reasons:

1 - People have arguments about why they believe one date is more "accurate" than another. But only God knows the true date. Therefore, selecting one unknown date over another unknown date doesn't really fix or accomplish anything.

2 - Given the longstanding tradition, there is a degree of social recognition earned by Christmas. That is, even among non-Christians, Christmas is considered a 'special' time of year. However, once we decide Christmas can be on whatever date we choose, we diminish that respect. If we can change the date to whenever we decide, then we lose the sense of the holiday being existentially 'special' - just add it to the list of religious holidays such as Ramadan, or Hanuka etc. - to be considered equal to, and therefore largely ignored, by non-believers.

 

 

[Luther]

6 minutes ago, Tristen said:

My thinking is more along the lines of the following passage:

Romans 14:5-10
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

I have never known anyone to worship a nativity scene. I therefore don't consider this to be a cogent concern.

 

I think your pejorative use of "Catholic Church" here is anachronistic. The Christians celebrating the incarnation of Christ in the second century were not part of the Roman (or Orthodox) "Catholic Church" - which later required a Reformation intervention. They were simply the Christians of the day who decided they would like to set aside a special day to celebrate God humbling Himself to human form (Philippians 2:8).

 

Likewise, there is no prohibition on when, how or why we are permitted to worship Christ.

In 5 minutes from now, I could decide to set aside time to thank God for sending His Son for my salvation. I could determine to do this specifically, at the same time every year. If, down the track, this practice spread to my family as a tradition, and maybe eventually beyond my family - surely this is permissible?

 

The fact that the Western world stops to celebrate a holiday that has Christ at its core - certainly provides opportunity to make people mindful of Jesus.

- This is true despite the efforts of the world to diminish Christ at every turn.

 

Given the Romans 14 passage above, I don't think it's fair to characterize Christmas as "unBiblical" - as though God would be generally displeased. The celebration of Christ's birth is neither mandated, nor prohibited, by scripture. We are free to set aside a day to specifically celebrate our God this way, or not. There is no correct nor incorrect choice here.

 

I would pushback against changing the date for two reasons:

1 - People have arguments about why they believe one date is more "accurate" than another. But only God knows the true date. Therefore, selecting one unknown date over another unknown date doesn't really fix or accomplish anything.

2 - Given the longstanding tradition, there is a degree of social recognition earned by Christmas. That is, even among non-Christians, Christmas is considered a 'special' time of year. However, once we decide Christmas can be on whatever date we choose, we diminish that respect. If we can change the date to whenever we decide, then we lose the sense of the holiday being existentially 'special' - just add it to the list of religious holidays such as Ramadan, or Hanuka etc. - to be considered equal to, and therefore largely ignored, by non-believers.

 

 

"My thinking is more along the lines of the following passage:Romans 14:5-10"

Sure. Just give you my deepest thoughts on the subject. 

"I have never known anyone to worship a nativity scene. I therefore don't consider this to be a cogent concern."

It's the fact that there is an image that is representing God. I'm sure God is not ok with some cheap plastic figure from Walmart to be a representation of His Almighty Glory. Sorry TOTALLY disagree. Our God is a jealous God. 

 

"I think your pejorative use of "Catholic Church" here is anachronistic."

CHRIST-MASS.

 

"I don't think it's fair to characterize Christmas as "unBiblical" - as though God would be generally displeased."

Here's the caveat: God remembers the very first December 25th when the pagan  winter celebration of NIMROD began. We think we're so far removed from the implication of that day. It's still on that day that the Emperor included the  "Christians " to have their own interpretation of the same pagan elements that originally still have the same historical pagan significance, because guess what... A witch down the road from you is celebrating the true meaning of the " Christmas tree", and the " yule log", on the same day as you. 

1 Thessalonians 5:22

Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

"there is a degree of social recognition earned by Christmas."

Yes you're right. And the farthest thing from their minds, especially in our day, is the "religious aspect". It's all about what's under that Nimrod tree.

 

It's " a special time of the year" for overeating, unfettered alcohol consumption, and opening your gifts while down the street from you that family that just became homeless could of used a couple bucks that you wouldn't have missed from your " Christmas budget". Yeah, we don't want to lose the significance of that, do we. 

Sorry, do what you please. We're just living in a time where the world is making Christmas time a great self-indulgent mockery of any traditional view I could have been ok with like 50 years ago. It's all trashy, especially the music oh, the music.