Cheap Grace and Easy Believeism.

[Luther]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The context is obvious.  Jesus Christ clearly does have power over EVERYTHING, flesh included.  And v.10 teaches that what Jesus own, the Father owns.

You sure miss the point I gave.  I said context matters.  And I gave several verses where there is NO context that allows a scope less than the entire human race.

How's this:  ALL who have believed in Him.  That's what it means.

Clearly, you need to.

Please explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9.

Why do you ask such silly questions.  The verse itself explains the SCOPE of "all".  It is ALL of those who obey Him.  Why would anyone claim the "all" here refers to the whole world?  No one would.

Actually, yes.  All unbelievers will clearly understand WHY they have been cast into the LOF.  Without a doubt.

Do you really think unbelievers will spend eternity in the LOF and not know WHY they ended up there??

Maybe ding dong would be apropos.  In the first "all", the scope IS the entire human race.  And in the second "all", the scope IS ALL who are in Christ.

If you can't see the obvious scope in this verse, you're having reading issues.

No one in their right mind would think that.  The key there is "in Christ", and obviously that wouldn't include the whole world.

Since you have so embarrassed yourself with all the lame examples where the context in each example was clear enough to NOT assume 'the whole world', I'm not even interested in your last example.

Why don't you research the verse in biblehub.com, ALL (exhaustive) 32 ENGLISH translations of the word, and see what comes up.

Since none of the rest of your examples proved anything, AND proved my point about context, let me know what you find with Luke 20:38.

I'm making the point that in the Bible  "all" doesn't mean the "entire world" when it comes to the atonement. Pronouns like "US" and "WE"  refer to those who are in Christ. It is that special relationship that "we" have in God's Word, as most of the world rejects it. 

( #2248, " us"): Greek: ἡμᾶς

Transliteration: hēmas

Pronunciation: hay-mas'

Definition: Accusative plural of G1473; us: - our us we.

KJV Usage: us (148x), we (25x), our (2x), us-ward (with G1519

( You will notice the word " ALL" is not listed) 

Romans 5:8-9

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[9]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

( Commendeth, #4921): to set together that is (by implication) to introduce (favorably) or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively to stand near or (figuratively) to constitute: - approve commend consist make stand (with).

God exhibits or constitutes His love towards "US", not  " all". 

Here are the  three entries where we find " us-ward" ( #2248):

Psalms 40:5

Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.

Ephesians 1:19

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

( In summary):

(Psalm 40:5): God's thoughts are towards "us-ward" His chosen. 

(Ephesians 1:19): His power is to         "us-ward" who have obtained an inheritance of eternal life being  "predetermined" ( predestinated) by God the Father ( Eph. 1:11).  

( And the one you've all been waiting for):

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's is patient towards His people and He does not intend ( #1014, boulomai) any of His chosen to perish, and that all of "us" will come to repentance. 

I know I know....you are going to go  nuts on my " interpretation". However I just don't throw anything out there for a  "cataclysmic Calvinist effect". My observations are well studied, and I can continue this theology/ banter with you until Christ comes. 

[Luther]

9 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus made reference to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob that they are alive to God. 

This Jesus said before his death on the Cross. 

And the same thing was said to Moses in Exodus 3:6 when God was speaking to Moses. Because Moses wanted to know what he will tell the people of Israel, that who sent him to them. This is what Moses said to the people, the Israelites who were the offsprings of Jacob. God started with the words in Exodus 3:6 ("I am the God of your Father Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob the three Patriarchs and also the God of all the Israelites and that included Moses. The Lord was telling Moses that He is also his God and He has been his God always as he is also an Israelite.

Moses who was brought up as a Prince of Egypt he was well educated in the Egyptian religion and their beliefs of after life and their Gods of the dead because when the Egyptians died they were gathered to their Gods of the dead. Moses understood that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob they were not gathered to those Gods of the dead because God told him that he was their God when they lived and He is still their God after they died and He is still their God even though they had died long time ago. Moses understood that the Gods of the dead never touched the people of God because their God was their God all the time in life and in the afterlife. The Egyptians had their Gods when they lived who stopped being their Gods the moment they die.

Luke 2o:38 
Berean Standard Bible
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

Mathew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.

New International Version Exodus 3:6 
6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Yes. So we can see that " cloud of witnesses"

Hebrews 12:1-2

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

[2]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

All of us who are children of God, OT and NT, are part of the " church by Jesus Christ":

Isaiah 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

( Many times in the OT "Israel" is a metaphor for the body of Christ. You can see the similarities in the next verses):

Ephesians 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Romans 9:33

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[Luther]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I need to stand for my self as I am the one who wrote the previous post.

I happened to be around mentally challenged people and these are the words we use for this group of people. 

They had their own church and played music and sing hymns and pray. I wish that you are more sympathetic to them. 

They believed and they say Jesus loves me and it means a lot to them. 

Jesus knows how much to expect from them and that what it counts. 

PS J am not ready to answer to your last post to Free Grace but I will soon. It's going to be an eye opener. Expect a blessing. 

 

Now, I think it's a little unfair to assume I have no sympathy for the mentally challenged. My brother and sister ( who has passed) were vaccine injured so I have lived it first hand. The point (which I think you missed) is this:

God is Sovereign in His merciful plan of salvation. We are not required to have an understanding of it in order to be saved. We need to " hear" ( in the spiritual sense), or "see" to understand  in our "hearts".

We need the Holy Spirit first for any of this to happen, because eternal life is not a test of  knowledge or even " our" will. God does everything perfect. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Yes. So we can see that " cloud of witnesses"

Hebrews 12:1-2

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

[2]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

All of us who are children of God, OT and NT, are part of the " church by Jesus Christ":

Isaiah 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

( Many times in the OT "Israel" is a metaphor for the body of Christ. You can see the similarities in the next verses):

Ephesians 3:21

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Romans 9:33

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

This is a good post. 

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

I'm making the point that in the Bible  "all" doesn't mean the "entire world" when it comes to the atonement.

Oh, excuse me, but you never proved that.  In fact, I proved that it does regarding the atonement.  NONE of your examples were about the atonement.

I scanned the entire post and thanks for AGAIN ignoring the verses I gave where "all" most certainly DOES refer to everyone.

I asked you to explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9, just 3 verses that refer to Christ's atonement and the word 'all' was used in all 3.  Can you do it?

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Pronouns like "US" and "WE"  refer to those who are in Christ. It is that special relationship that "we" have in God's Word, as most of the world rejects it. 

( #2248, " us"): Greek: ἡμᾶς

Transliteration: hēmas

Pronunciation: hay-mas'

Definition: Accusative plural of G1473; us: - our us we.

KJV Usage: us (148x), we (25x), our (2x), us-ward (with G1519

( You will notice the word " ALL" is not listed)

This is just all irrelevant to the issue of the use of "all" in regard to the atonement.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Romans 5:8-9

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Look ahead to the next verse, for context.  you still need to explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and heb 2:9.  I'm not letting you off the hook that easily.   Please stop ignoring the verses I share.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

[9]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Here, obviously, Paul is speaking of believers, those who HAVE ALREADY believed.  Yes, Jesus died for believers.  But where that phantom verse that SAYS Jesus died ONLY for believers.  You believe that but there are no verses that say that.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Psalms 40:5

Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.

Ephesians 1:19

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

( In summary):

The clear summary is that in all verses concerning the scope of the atonement, the word "all" cannot be abridged to mean "less than everyone".  And you haven't shown otherwise.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

(Ephesians 1:19): His power is to "us-ward" who have obtained an inheritance of eternal life being  "predetermined" ( predestinated) by God the Father.

I love this verse, because it CLEARLY explains who Paul meant in v.4 by "us".  In v.19 Paul clarified, "us who BELIEVE".

And I've already proven that both believing and REFUSING to believe are choices that man makes.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

( And the one you've all been waiting for):

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's is patient towards His people and He does not intend ( #1014, boulomai) any of His chosen to perish, and that all of "us" will come to repentance.

Nice try, but no dice.  Here, Paul is clearly referring to the human race, since "His promise" is found in Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

This verse totally refutes the Calvinist claim that salvation is by unconditional election.  This is one of the few verses what includes "man".  In most of them, that word is NOT used.  Just "all", as in 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9, which I've asked you to explain.  I respond to your verses.  Why don't you respond to mine?

2 hours ago, Luther said:

I know I know....you are going to go  nuts on my " interpretation". However I just don't throw anything out there for a  "cataclysmic Calvinist effect".

That's up for debate.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

My observations are well studied, and I can continue this theology/ banter with you until Christ comes. 

If this this true, then you should have no problem proving that the "all" in 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9 CANNOT mean all of humanity.

Hint:  the verses say that He "died for all" and there is NO CONTEXT by which to conclude the writer was referring any subgroup of humanity.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

Now, I think it's a little unfair to assume I have no sympathy for the mentally challenged. My brother and sister ( who has passed) were vaccine injured so I have lived it first hand. The point (which I think you missed) is this:

God is Sovereign in His merciful plan of salvation. We are not required to have an understanding of it in order to be saved. We need to " hear" ( in the spiritual sense), or "see" to understand  in our "hearts".

We need the Holy Spirit first for any of this to happen, because eternal life is not a test of  knowledge or even " our" will. God does everything perfect. 

This is a good post.

Like Moses said that I do things on my own and I also do the things God is asking me to do. 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

salvation is by unconditional election

"Absolute sovereignty is what I love to ascribe to God." - Jonathan Edwards

Verses regarding Unconditional Election

Ps 65:4 Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!

Mt 11:25-30 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; 26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Jn 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Jn 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.[3]’

Jn 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Acts 13:46-48 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Rom 11:5-7 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11-12 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for 13 it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

1Thess 1:4-5 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

1Thess 5:9-10 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

2Thess 2:13-14 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Pet 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Rom 9:22-24 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

2Tim 1:8-12 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, 12 which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

Rom 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

1Cor 1:30-31 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Jas 1:18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Rom 9:10-13 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[4]

Rom 10:20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.[5]”

1Cor 1:27-29 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

Spiritully dead Men who claim to have come to saving faith in their own prior to God regenerating their dead spirits are not only boasting, they are denying the biblical truth of God's sovereign will in election. 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Luther

God informed Moses that he had made the distinction between Issac and all the other children of Abraham and between Jacob and Esau. 

This is why he mentioned only isaac and jacob as being in the blessings of Abraham who were the only ones from the children of Abraham and Isaac to be gathered to Abraham after their death and he included Moses and the Israelites because He said that I am their God and they are my people and no one else. The time came that God revealed to Jacob that he has a blessing that he had promised to Abraham and He changed his name to Israel something God did with Abraham and he changed his name from Abram to Abraham. Not only the children who were born to him and he included them in the blessings but also God included his other children to be born from Rachel. And the blessings went to their children's children. The blessing was that they were all alive to God while they lived and after they died because they were in the inheritance of Abraham being gathered to Abraham after their death. God continued to be their God. They were the People of God while they lived and continued to be the people of God after their death just like Abraham Isaac and Jacob. And they all together with Abraham were waiting for the promised of God for the blessed one whom God had promised that when he comes he will deliver them out from the inheritance of Abraham and into the place God had prepared for them so they can be where He is. 

All God had who were with Abraham were given to Jesus Christ. And all Jesus Christ has with the preaching of the Gospel are also God's Children in Him. 

One body with one head, one Lord, one Savior one Spirit. So Jesus Christ is the blessed hope of all. God in Jesus Christ at his death he joint both Jews and Gentiles into one body as both of them they have the forgiveness of their sins in the same way in Jesus Christ. 

[Luther]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Oh, excuse me, but you never proved that.  In fact, I proved that it does regarding the atonement.  NONE of your examples were about the atonement.

I scanned the entire post and thanks for AGAIN ignoring the verses I gave where "all" most certainly DOES refer to everyone.

I asked you to explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9, just 3 verses that refer to Christ's atonement and the word 'all' was used in all 3.  Can you do it?

This is just all irrelevant to the issue of the use of "all" in regard to the atonement.

Look ahead to the next verse, for context.  you still need to explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and heb 2:9.  I'm not letting you off the hook that easily.   Please stop ignoring the verses I share.

Here, obviously, Paul is speaking of believers, those who HAVE ALREADY believed.  Yes, Jesus died for believers.  But where that phantom verse that SAYS Jesus died ONLY for believers.  You believe that but there are no verses that say that.

The clear summary is that in all verses concerning the scope of the atonement, the word "all" cannot be abridged to mean "less than everyone".  And you haven't shown otherwise.

I love this verse, because it CLEARLY explains who Paul meant in v.4 by "us".  In v.19 Paul clarified, "us who BELIEVE".

And I've already proven that both believing and REFUSING to believe are choices that man makes.

Nice try, but no dice.  Here, Paul is clearly referring to the human race, since "His promise" is found in Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

This verse totally refutes the Calvinist claim that salvation is by unconditional election.  This is one of the few verses what includes "man".  In most of them, that word is NOT used.  Just "all", as in 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9, which I've asked you to explain.  I respond to your verses.  Why don't you respond to mine?

That's up for debate.

If this this true, then you should have no problem proving that the "all" in 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9 CANNOT mean all of humanity.

Hint:  the verses say that He "died for all" and there is NO CONTEXT by which to conclude the writer was referring any subgroup of humanity.

You said: "I asked you to explain 2 Cor 5:14,15 and Heb 2:9, just 3 verses that refer to Christ's atonement and the word 'all' was used in all 3. Can you do it?"

Freegrace....Yes, I think I can. But what happens is you send a lot of things my way at once! I appreciate the feedback but It's hard for me to return as quickly as you. I don't know how you do it. 

Anyway, I think all three verses will actually tie in nicely. 

( The first two verses you presented):

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

[15]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

So if we get a broader scope, Who are  "they which live?" Well, They no longer live  "unto themselves" but unto Christ who died for " them"( #846, which does not not include "all"). So it would be correct to say " Christ died for all them". 

Hebrews 10:14

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (them that are sanctified.)"

So only " them that are sanctified" are perfected by Christ's sacrifice. You realize to be sanctified is to be "set apart"? Set apart from who?

"All"  the world. 

..........................................

(The third verse you presented):

Hebrews 2:9

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Let's continue......

[10]For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

[11]For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Right away we see " many sons".     "Many" ( #4183 polos) KJV Usage: many (210x), much (73x), great (59x),

"Polos" is  many, much or a great number of "sons", but not "all". It was Jesus who brought us to glory, not we ourselves. So now we have to know if Jesus tasted ( experienced) death for every man ( person) in the world or just for the "many" in the verse that follows it. 

Well you know what I already think. But it is true, that " every man" doesn't always mean " every man that ever lived". ( Examples):

Matthew 7:26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine..."

Luke 6:30 "Give to every man that asketh of thee....."

Galatians 5:30 "....to every man that is circumcised......"

Just thought of this verse:

Luke 9:23

And he said to them (all), If (any man) will (come after me), let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

( Compare with):

John 6:37,44

(All)  that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him* that (cometh to me) I will in no wise cast out.

*( #846 or " they") 

[44](No man) can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[FreeGrace]

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

"Absolute sovereignty is what I love to ascribe to God." - Jonathan Edwards

But, within His absolute sovereignty, God created humanity with a conscience, which is how God holds humanity accountable for the choices they make.  Rom 2:14,15

Since the Bible says that "men REFUSE to believe" in Acts 14:2 and 19:9, we KNOW that man is able to REFUSE, and the opposite, TO believe.  

Unregenerate man is fully able to believe the gospel, just as much as he is able to REFUSE to believe the gospel.  If unregenerate man is unable to believe, then man has NO accountability before God, since it would be God choosing who will believe or not.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Verses regarding Unconditional Election

Rather than address each verse, I'll just summarize.  NONE of them say in plain clear words that God chooses people to salvation.  Period.  But there are a lot of verses that plainly identify the PURPOSE of God's choice, and it's always to service.  You've seen the verses.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Ps 65:4 Blessed is the one you choose and bring near, to dwell in your courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of your house, the holiness of your temple!

Where are the words that would make this choice unconditional?  Rom 11:32 tells us that:  "For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Mt 11:25-30 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; 26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

Again, there are no words that indicate that this choice is unconditional.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

One has to add the concept of unconditional here.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Jn 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

How about John 6:44?  “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Now, what about the next verse, v.45?  It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

v.45 tells us exactly WHO will come to Jesus:  those who have "listened and learned" from the Father, who has taught everyone.  The point is:  not everyone pays attention in class.  Many day dreamers, doodlers, and sleepers.  

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Jn 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.[3]’

What about John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”  71 - (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

These verses clearly show that Jesus chose Judas as the betrayer, which is a service, and certainly not to salvation.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Jn 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Thanks for another verse that is about service, and this verse plainly tells us what service His 11 disciples/apostles were chosen for:  to bear fruit.  

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

The Greek word here translated "calls" means to invite.  Not chosen unconditionally.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Rom 10:10 says that man believes from his heart.  If God was regenerating people so that they WOULD believe, this verse isn't being honest.  It would say, "man believes from his regeneration.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Acts 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

God ADDS those who are believing the gospel "to their number".  Nothing about unconditional election.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Acts 13:48  And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Greek grammar includes active, middle and passive voice.  It helps to understand the relationship between the subject and action of the verb.

active voice - the subject produces the action.

middle voice - subject acts on self.

passive voice - outside agent acts on subject.

Calvinist theology claims the verb tasso is passive voice, meaning God "appointed" or "ordained" the Gentiles to eternal life.  But that is merely an assumption, since God isn't mentioned as the agent.

Also, the particular form of tasso in v.48 is the SAME in the middle AND passive voice.  So the only way to determine which voice the author meant is by the context.

The meaning of tasso:

Strong's Lexicon

tassó: To arrange, to appoint, to order, to ordain

Original Word: τάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: tassó
Pronunciation: TAS-so
Phonetic Spelling: (tas'-so)
Definition: To arrange, to appoint, to order, to ordain
Meaning: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.

Word Origin: A primary verb

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with "tassó" is the verb "סָדַר" (sadar), which means to arrange or set in order. 

Lexicons typically order the various semantic meanings from the most common to the least common.

Here, we see that "to arrange" comes up as the most common.

And, we have clear evidence in v.44 that supports the FACT that the Gentiles arranged themselves to hear the preaching about eternal life.

v.44 - On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

So, think about it.  When "almost the whole city gathered" to hear Paul, no doubt the crowds had to "arrange themselves" in order to fit where ever Paul was preaching.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Rom 8:29-30 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

No mention of unconditional election here.  btw, not even "election" itself.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Rom 11:5-7 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

The key is found in the very first verse, v.5.  Sure, chosen by grace.

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Same principle here:  we are saved by grace.  AND . . . that salvation is THROUGH FAITH.  I always find it interesting how little Calvinists even mention faith, but that is because in their theology, faith is but a mere by product of election.  

When the Bible strongly teaches that faith is THE basis for everything in God's plan.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Thanks for another verse that clearly states the PURPOSE of election, and in this verse, the purpose is "to be holy and blameless", which refers to a holy lifestyle.

btw, the word "us" in v.4 is clearly defined in v.19 as "by us who BELIEVE".  Believing is a choice, just as REFUSING to believe is a free choice, and the Bible SAYS that "men REFUSED to believe" in Acts 14:2 and 19:9.  So we know that unregenerate man CAN believe, just as much as he can REFUSE to believe.  Just 2 sides of the same coin.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Eph 1:11-12 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.

No mention of election, much less of unconditional election.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

This verse states the purpose God had in creating a new creation (2 Cor 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: The old has gone, the new is here!).  And what is the purpose in this creation:  "for good works".  Again, this is about a holy sanctified lifestyle, which is just another way for saying WORKS.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Phil 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for 13 it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

No mention of uncondional election.  And v.12 is about the present tense salvation.

Past tense salvation:  justification

Present tense salvation:  sanctification

Future tense salvation:  glorification

So Paul is referring to spiritual growth in v.12, which takes work.  Certainly salvation is NOT of works, lest any man can boast.  Eph 2:8,9

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

1Thess 1:4-5 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

Where is any mention of unconditional anything?

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

1Thess 5:9-10 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

Paul frequently used "salvation" in the sense of deliverance from danger in life.  Most of the uses of "salvation" in Romans are in that sense.  When Paul referred to soul salvation, he used the word "justification".  

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

2Thess 2:13-14 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks for again quoting a verse that supports the PURPOSE in what God chooses.

In v.13 most Calvinists stop quoting at "salvation".  They only read "God chose you to be saved."  They leave off the rest of the verse.

But the rest of the verse tells us about WHAT God has chosen.  And that is "salvation through sanctifiation by the Spirit and BELIEF in the truth".

The conjunction "and" is frequently translated as "even", which would equate "sanctification by the Spirit" with "belief in the truth".  That is sensible.

But regardless, what God is choosing in v.13 isn't unconditional salvation for anyone, but rather, the MEANS or METHOD of salvation of people, which is belief in the truth.

To the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved, in Acts 16:30, Paul's answer was very clear, in v31 - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

1Pet 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Thanks again for a verse that supports my view rather than yours.  OK, in v.1 Peter acknowledges he was writing to "the elect".  In v.2, he clearly says "according to the foreknowledge of God".  This refers to the FACT that God has always known who would believe.  There is NO mention of unconditional election to salvation here.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Rom 9:22-24 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Thanks for more verses that support my view.  And you chose a translation that uses "prepared" in both verses, 22-23.  Check out a lexicon and in v.22, the Greek word is 'katartizo', which is used elsewhere in the NT for "disciples mending their nets" or "restoring".  What v.22 doesn't teach is that God prepares anyone for wrath.  

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Eph 2:4-7 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Thanks again!!  In v.5 Paul equates "made us alive with Christ" with "you have been saved".  That means they go together.  iow, you can't have one without the other and the Bible never describes anyone having only 1 and not the other

Since you left off v.8, which ties it all together, here it is:  For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

For salvation to be "through faith" means that faith must PRECEDE salvation, which is contrary to Calvinist theology, who claims the opposite.

Since v.5 equates regeneration and salvation, v.8 plainly states that both salvation and regeneration are through faith.  Faith precedes both of them, plainly stated.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

2Tim 1:8-12 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, 12 which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

Pay attention to v.9.  God "saved us" AND "called us to a holy calling".  Bingo!  Another verse about believers being invited (chosen in Eph 1:4) to a holy lifestyle.

It's all about service.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Rom 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

And the Bible TELLS US PLAINLY who God will have mercy on.

Isa 55:7 - Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

The red words are a choice made by the wicked.  And when the wicked DO "forsake their ways/thoughts, and then turn to the Lord" what is the result?  God "will have mercy on them".  

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Spiritully dead Men who claim to have come to saving faith in their own prior to God regenerating their dead spirits are not only boasting

Not true.  Since the Bible SAYS that men REFUSE to believe, that proves that men CAN believe, because refusal is a choice.  So is believing.

All the emphasis in the Bible about salvation is on faith, believing, trusting.  All of these are choices that WE make, and that doesn't mean anyone boasts.

Let me give you an example.  If a person was in deep water and began drowning, and a lifeguard threw a buoy to the person, and the person grabbed it and held on while the lifeguard pulled the person to shore or the side of a pool, could the person boast that he/she saved themselves by holding on to the buoy?  Of course not.  That would be idiotic.  

And, btw, I've NEVER heard anyone ever make such a claim;  that they "came to faith  on their own".  That is a false claim that too many Calvinists make over and over.

This is what the Bible says in 2 Tim 3:15 - and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

iow, The Scripture, are what "makes you wise for salvation".  It's not that anyone is intellectually smarter and believes because of their IQ; another false claim by Calvinists.  I've heard them all.  

When a person hears the gospel, that information is ENOUGH to "make them wise to salvation".  That proves that unregenerate man is fully ABLE to believe the gospel that he either hears or reads.

48 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

they are denying the biblical truth of God's sovereign will in election. 

And none of your verses even come close to supporting anything Calvinist.  Most had no mention of salvation, let alone unconditional.  Or election to salvation.

Many actually noted the purpose in election was to some kind of service.

Now, having specifically addressing the vast majority of all the verses you quoted in your post, would you do me the favor of addressing the verses I quote?

It's a bit frustrating to quote verses that plainly say what I believe just to have them all ignored.  I address your verses and point out the truth.  I would appreciate your dealing with the verses I quote.

If I'm wrong, and your theology is correct, it should be easy to show me where I am in error.  Truth always trumps lies and errors.

So please, prove me wrong if I am.  I don't want to be wrong any more than I know you don't either.