Does God play dice?...

[IaMan]

I'm talking metaphorically and not  literally with the subject title.

But If not then why test Abraham with the ordeal of sacrificing his son ?

And what the point of rolling the dice of infinite faces when already knowing the number it will land on when thrown?

Does the Abraham story confirms the notion of true unpredictable randomness existing ?

 

 

 

[The Barbarian]

“The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity, happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency”

Thomas Aquinas:, Summa theologiae, I, 22, 4 ad 1.

[IaMan]

On 1/2/2025 at 12:39 AM, The Barbarian said:

“The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity, happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency”

Thomas Aquinas:, Summa theologiae, I, 22, 4 ad 1.

                                                                      Genesis 22: 12] He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for...... NOW ......I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."

 

Is this passage not blasphemous? 

It reads as God not knowing that Abraham would follow through?

[other one]

On 12/31/2024 at 4:22 PM, IaMan said:

I'm talking metaphorically and not  literally with the subject title.

But If not then why test Abraham with the ordeal of sacrificing his son ?

And what the point of rolling the dice of infinite faces when already knowing the number it will land on when thrown?

Does the Abraham story confirms the notion of true unpredictable randomness existing ?

 

 

 

It's my opinion that because God is not constrained to the linear timeline we live it, he knew what Abraham would decide to do beforehand.  Not that he made Abraham do something, but knew beforehand what Abraham would do.

Same as the end time things going on today.   God isn't going to make us do things, he just knew what we would do and told is about it beforehand so we would not lose faith when it happens.  God doesn't want all the evil going on in the world today, he just saw it happen in our future and told us about it.

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, IaMan said:

                                                                      Genesis 22: 12] He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for...... NOW ......I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."

 

Is this passage not blasphemous? 

It reads as God not knowing that Abraham would follow through?

I think the understanding of God by His people grew over time.   I believe other one has this right.

 

[RV_Wizard]

On 1/4/2025 at 9:07 AM, IaMan said:

 

Is this passage not blasphemous? 

It reads as God not knowing that Abraham would follow through?

The Bible was not written for Abraham.  It was written for others to know that Abraham so trusted God he would offer his only son, just as God would one day do for us.

Neither did God need to test Job.  He knew Job would pass the test, but in that, Job became a lesson for us to trust God over all things.

God knew Adam would fail the test, but He gave Adam free will anyway and allowed man the freedom to rebel against God's orders.

God knew Lot couldn't find 10 good men in Sodom, but He allowed Lot to bargain down to a very low number so that Lot, and the rest of us, would know that the cities were not worth saving.

The Bible is not all written TO us, but all of it is written FOR us.  There is no chance with God.  He knows the outcome.  The lessons are for us, the unknowing, to determine our level of faith in God's word.

[other one]

10 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Neither did God need to test Job.  He knew Job would pass the test, but in that, Job became a lesson for us to trust God over all things.

It was also a huge thumb in the eye to Satan.   God knew Job would be faithful, but Satan thought mankind was like him.

[other one]

12 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

God knew Adam would fail the test, but He gave Adam free will anyway and allowed man the freedom to rebel against God's orders.

God also knew he was going to use mankind to judge the angels, so I would say that he intended for Adam to do what he did.  Adam was not created with the ability to judge, for he didn't know good from evil, right from wrong and such.   It's really interesting that he let Satan talk Eve and then Adam to obtaining that knowledge to be judges.

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, other one said:

God also knew he was going to use mankind to judge the angels, so I would say that he intended for Adam to do what he did.  Adam was not created with the ability to judge, for he didn't know good from evil, right from wrong and such.   It's really interesting that he let Satan talk Eve and then Adam to obtaining that knowledge to be judges.

It's important to know that man, until gaining the knowledge of good and evil, could not have fellowship with God.    The serpent fooled himself, thinking to derail God's purposes, but only managed to help fulfill God's plans for us.    God can even use sin and malice of others to complete His will.    Those who think they are opposing God are still serving His purposes, as Herod served to validate the prophesy of "called out of Egypt" and "will be called a Nazarine."

[RV_Wizard]

16 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

It's important to know that man, until gaining the knowledge of good and evil, could not have fellowship with God. 

Really?  Adam and Even walked and spoke with God.  That isn't fellowship?  Eve was created with childbirth in mind.  Had she heeded God's warning, childbirth would not have been a painful experience.  It WAS entirely possible for man and God to have a close relationship.  It was man who chose to disobey God.  Yes, God knew Adam would fall, but the decision was entirely Adam's.  

16 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God can even use sin and malice of others to complete His will. 

God can use sin to His greater glory, but all sin is repugnant to God.  Herod fulfilled biblical prophesies, but Herod is most likely already roasting in Hell for his great evil.  God delivered Jonah from the belly of the "great fish," but that all happened because he disobeyed God.  Noah was an example of Christ; by one man the world was saved, but the Great Flood was a punishment and a curse to the world because of sin.  Sin never has a desirable consequence.