1 Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection

[Feedmysheep]

<<<There is NO connection between Judges 7 and end times.  I wonder why you think there is, which conflicts with what the Bible says.  Why do you do that?>>>

This principle of God working with a REMNANT is seen in many places in the OT and NT.

From all of the Isralites who were to be "a kingdom of priests"  only a remnant, the tribe of Levi, the Levitical priests were selected. 

From all the Isrealites who were told they would return from the Babylonian  only a remnant minority came back. Read about the remnant who returned from Babylon in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai. 

Of the original generation that came out of Egypt in the Exodus only TWO were brought into the Good Land of Canaan with the new generation-  Joshua and Caleb. 

Of the some 30,000 Isralites God whittled down to an army of 300 led by Gideon to secure the national victory.  Read about it in Judges chapter 7. 

Of the thousands who were ministered to and blessed by Jesus only a remnant of 120 were waiting in the upper room for the power of the Holy Spirit to come. 

The principle of God moving His program forward, not waiting, but securing a remnant of  overcomers is an oft repeated situation in the Bible.

 

Edited January 6 by Feedmysheep

[FreeGrace]

37 minutes ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<I have no problem with God giving victory through a remnant.  What I do have a very big problem with is any claim about multiple resurrections when the Bible speaks ONLY of 1, and there is NO MENTION of any rapture trip to heaven.>>>

 I think that is a more reasonable admission. You do admit that YOU have a problem.

Oh, cute.  You mean you don't have a problem with false doctrine?  That's odd.

37 minutes ago, Feedmysheep said:

   I think it is OK to have some problems in the Scripture. Sometimes some problem one has can lead to deeper study.  Sometimes. 

I don't have a problem with parables.  I don't understand with most of them but unless Jesus explains them in Scripture, I know that I won't understand them.  Even His disciples had to have them explained to Him.

[FreeGrace]

34 minutes ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<There is NO connection between Judges 7 and end times.  I wonder why you think there is, which conflicts with what the Bible says.  Why do you do that?>>>

  The "plain words" tell us to keep our heads up. For the things written in the OT were for our benefit upon whom the end of the ages has come.

This doesn't link Judges 7 to the end times.

34 minutes ago, Feedmysheep said:

Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our admonition, unto whom the ends of the ages have come. (1 Cor. 10:11)

The context refers to the Exodus generation, not end times.

34 minutes ago, Feedmysheep said:

For the things that were written previously were written for our instruction, in order that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Rom. 15:4) 

The Greek word for 'hope' means confidence.  So, yes, the OT does give believers confidence.  Still, nothing about end times in Rom 15:4.

[Feedmysheep]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 

 

 

<<<Oh, cute.  You mean you don't have a problem with false doctrine?  That's odd.>>>

That was phrased a little offensively, I admit. But you don't have a glass jaw, do you? I mean I have looked back over some of your comments to me. Some of them were similarly annoying to me, you know? 

I do have a problem with a false dogmatic insistence  that the man-child cannot be a remnant of overcomers who in the past ages died and are caught up to God before the start of the GT.

It is not all your fault that you have a problem with the sign of the man-child. I didn't see this either the first many times I read the book of Revelation.

There is no false doctrine in this interpretation. We should know that Christ calls for some to overcome. And that these who heed His call will be among both some living at the end of the church age and some who died in the past having lived overcomingly.

  So that distinction is made of His approvedness of such just before the great tribulation I think is reasonable.  

 Because Revelation shows signs which reveal various views of the last times, we see signs dedicated to various aspects the Spirit would impress us with.

1.)  Martyred saints enjoying and early resurrection and rapture for strategic advantage over the enemy -  Chapter 12's man-child.

2.) Living saints enjoying and early rapture having never died, like Enoch for God's satisfaction -Chapter 14's firstfruits.

3.)  Martyred saints on the earth during the great tribulation - Chapter's 15 - saints standing a sea of glass mingled with fire. 

4.) The totality of all God's saints - Chapter 12 - woman of universal light pregnant with a child.  

5.)  All saints that passed through the GT including resurrected ones caught up to the clouds by the Son of Man - Chapter 14 -  harvest.

6.)  Saints raptured to heaven as a remnant to be His bridal army coming down with Christ - Chapter 19 - wife who has made herself ready and rides on horses following Christ down ro Armageddon. 

7.)  Reigning overcomers during the millennium - Chapter 20  co-kings.

8.)  All the saints throughout history finally being fully matured - Chapters 21,22 - New Jerusalem. 

You never learned that these are various views of God's people from a number of important angles. 

Edited January 6 by Feedmysheep

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<Oh, cute.  You mean you don't have a problem with false doctrine?  That's odd.>>>

That was phrased a little offensively, I admit. But you don't have a glass jaw, do you? I mean I have looked back over some of your comments to me. Some of them were similarly annoying to me, you know?

Trusting that you don't have a glass jaw.  😁

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

I do have a problem with a false dogmatic insistence  that the man-child cannot be a remnant of overcomers who in the past ages died and are caught up to God before the start of the GT.

The problem is trying to force this group into another resurrection, and a trip to heaven. 

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

There is no false doctrine in this interpretation. We should know that Christ calls for some to overcome. And that these who heed His call will be among both some living at the end of the church age and some who died in the past having lived overcomingly.

What is untrue is thinking that there are multiple resurrections.  And the "call to overcome" is actually for all believers, since all believers are elected to service.  And there are no verses linking overcomers with a resurrection of their own.  1 Cor 15:23 is clear that there will be just one resurrection, for all believers, at the Second Advent.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

  So that distinction is made of His approvedness of such just before the great tribulation I think is reasonable.

Without verses, I think not reasonable.  It's conjecture.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

  Because Revelation shows signs which reveal various views of the last times, we see signs dedicated to various aspects the Spirit would impress us with.

All the signs mentioned by John will be obvious when they occur.  We have no need to have a full understanding of them before hand.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

1.)  Martyred saints enjoying and early resurrection and rapture for strategic advantage over the enemy -  Chapter 12's man-child.

1 Cor 15:23 says only 1 resurrection.  The Bible only speaks of singular resurrection.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

2.) Living saints enjoying and early rapture having never died, like Enoch for God's satisfaction -Chapter 14's firstfruits.

At the Second Advent, when Christ comes back, there will be living believers receiving their resurrection body.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

4.) The totality of all God's saints - Chapter 12 - woman of universal light pregnant with a child. 

All metaphors, figures of speech, etc are up for debate.  

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

5.)  All saints that passed through the GT including resurrected ones caught up to the clouds by the Son of Man - Chapter 14 -  harvest.

No clear verses on that, and refuted by 1 Cor 15:23.  And there will be NO resurrected saints "going through the GT".

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

6.)  Saints raptured to heaven as a remnant to be His bridal army coming down with Christ - Chapter 19 - wife who has made herself ready and rides on horses following Christ down ro Armageddon. 

The saints in Rev 19 are all the saints that have died over the millennia, and are awaiting Christ's return to earth.  And they will accompany Him.  Rev 19

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

7.)  Reigning overcomers during the millennium - Chapter 20  co-kings.

The King will reign over the nations with a rod of iron, indicating that the citizens of the world will be a rowdy bunch.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

8.)  All the saints throughout history finally being fully matured - Chapters 21,22 - New Jerusalem.

Fulfilled at the Second Advent when all believers receive their glorified resurrection bodies.

1 hour ago, Feedmysheep said:

 You never learned that these are various views of God's people from a number of important angles. 

Yes, I am aware that there are a wide assortment of views on Revelation.  I believe the clear plain language verses.  I'm not concerned with the metaphors, figures of speech.  They will become obvious when they appear.

[Feedmysheep]

<<<The problem is trying to force this group into another resurrection, and a trip to heaven. >>>

It is resurrection before the 1,260 days as opposed to after the 1,260 days.

<<<What is untrue is thinking that there are multiple resurrections.  And the "call to overcome" is actually for all believers, since all believers are elected to service.>>> 

  The call to overcome is to all believers. True. But not all heed the call. Or not all heed the call within the time in which they should heed it. That is why seven time with the call to overcome in Revelation 2,3 we have this seven times - 

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

<<<And there are no verses linking overcomers with a resurrection of their own.  1 Cor 15:23 is clear that there will be just one resurrection, for all believers, at the Second Advent.>>>

 The verse linking overcoming to resurrection in Rev. 12 - 

Rev. 12:11 - And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.

Linked to 

Rev. 12:5 -And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 

The verse linking overcoming to resurrection in Philippians -

To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

If perhaps I may attain to the out-resurrection from the dead. (Phil. 3:10,11)

<<< 1 Cor 15:23 is clear that there will be just one resurrection, for all believers, at the Second Advent.>>>

This is a general statement. Specifically the "THEY" overcomers of the man-child are caught up to God's throne before the last trumpet- the seventh trumpet. 

You would have to prove -

1.) the THEY  are not resurrected,  or

2.) the THEY are not Christ's at His coming, or

3.) the THEY are not the ones "those who dwell in heaven" (Rev. 12:12), or

4.) the THEY are just the woman being persecuted by the dragon on the earth for 3.5 years. 

Show us that you can do that. I'll consider if your explanations are better.This invitation is open to anyone reading along. 

<<<Without verses, I think not reasonable.  It's conjecture.>>>

It is good interpretation. The NT shows it is unavoidable that some approved will be manifested above mediocrity. 

For there must even be parties among you, that those who are approved may become manifest among you. (1 Cor. 11:19)

It is wrong conjecture to think Revelation 12's resurrected and raptured man-child is not prophecy of this manifest approvedness.

<<<All the signs mentioned by John will be obvious when they occur. >>>

This is obviously not true because some of the signs are clearly explained.

The mystery of the seven stars which you saw upon My right hand and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Rev. 1:20) 

And some things are said to remain unknown but not all.

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write, and I heard a voice out of heaven, saying, Seal the things which the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them. (Rev. 10:4)

Other signs we may apply wisdom to to ascertain where a good interpretation lies. We may distiguish poorer more unlikely interpretations from better more plaisible ones. 

 <<<We have no need to have a full understanding of them before hand.>>>

   But the Lord reveals them to us, why should we refuse to hear? All the signs may not be pertinent to major tenets of our faith. That is no reason to refuse the possibility that Lord desires us to grow in understanding. 

<<<All metaphors, figures of speech, etc are up for debate.  >>>

Which is what we are doing.  I am giving reasons for the hope that is within me as I am told to do.   You're debating that I should have no such hope. So we debate a little. 

<<<The saints in Rev 19 are all the saints that have died over the millennia, and are awaiting Christ's return to earth.  And they will accompany Him.  >>>

If you read it carefully, you may see that they also are a remnant whomade themselves ready. And what qualifies them to be this wife who is what also qualifies them to be His army. 

 The righteous DEEDS or righteousnessES [sic] of the saints. 

Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.

And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints. (Rev. 19:8,9)

The fine linen with which she is adorned is not here the covering soely of justification. Rather it is the fine linen of acts, behaviors, deeds, practical expressions of her living. In other words she has come up to the level of normality and overomer abnormality. 

And the same qualifying living that permits her to attend the marriage feast is ALSO the qualifying characteristics allowing her to accompany Christ from Heaven as His bridal army. 

And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14) 

The fine linen, bright and clean for her readiness for the marriage is also the fine linen, white and clean that is her fighting garmet, her battle armor. 

This combines the overcoming of the man-child who did die and the overcoming of the firstfruits who were raptured alive.  The aspect of loving preparation is combined with the aspect of spiritual warfare.

We also can see that this army of saints who accompany Christ down from heaven is a minority remnant in chapter 17. 

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them. (Rev. 17:14) 

I believe what the Holy Spirit is showing us and we need to see 

All the saved are called. And all the saved are chosen. Some add to these actions of God their own cooperation a - faithfulness . . .   they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful . . .

It is usually a minority among the total number of blessed recipients of redemption that overcome with faithfulness. 

This is to what we should endevour to attain, the normalcy of being victors. We potentially in Christ should be more than conquerors (overcomers).

But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us. (Rom. 8:37)

Like Paul none of us should boast that we have already attained. But we also together stretch forward to attain, to gain Christ never being self satisfied. 

This is a corporate matter difficult to arise to individualistically. It is under the feet of the builded church that the God of peace will crush Satan. (Romans 16:20)

It is to the church in brotherly love that Christ opens a door which no one can shut. (Rev. 3:8)

And it is God's perogative in the end times to manifest some early resurrected and early raptured ones. I have to stand against an opinion that the divine hands are tied to have only one resurrection / rapture event at the end of the great tribulation. 

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<The problem is trying to force this group into another resurrection, and a trip to heaven. >>>

It is resurrection before the 1,260 days as opposed to after the 1,260 days.

You keep making reference to 3.5 years.  Most scholars view the Tribulation as a 7 yr event.  Could you explain.  And there can be NO resurrection before the tribulation or even during it because of 1 Cor 15:23 which says that at the Second Advent ALL believers will be resurrected.  There is no wriggle room here.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<What is untrue is thinking that there are multiple resurrections.  And the "call to overcome" is actually for all believers, since all believers are elected to service.>>> 

  The call to overcome is to all believers. True. But not all heed the call. Or not all heed the call within the time in which they should heed it. That is why seven time with the call to overcome in Revelation 2,3 we have this seven times - 

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Correct.  And none of this relates to any resurrection.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<And there are no verses linking overcomers with a resurrection of their own.  1 Cor 15:23 is clear that there will be just one resurrection, for all believers, at the Second Advent.>>>

 The verse linking overcoming to resurrection in Rev. 12 - 

Rev. 12:11 - And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.

Linked to 

Rev. 12:5 -And she brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 

The verse linking overcoming to resurrection in Philippians -

To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

If perhaps I may attain to the out-resurrection from the dead. (Phil. 3:10,11)

One must assume resurrection is any of these verses.  And if there is, the the Bible is conflicted because Dan 12:2, John 5:24, Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 all indicate only one resurrection for believers.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<< 1 Cor 15:23 is clear that there will be just one resurrection, for all believers, at the Second Advent.>>>

This is a general statement. Specifically the "THEY" overcomers of the man-child are caught up to God's throne before the last trumpet- the seventh trumpet.

This is just trying to bypass the truth of 1 Cor 15:23.  By what authority do you claim your view is free to bypass ANY verse in the Bible?  So, to say 1 Cor 15:23 "is a general statement" only means one is able to ignore the singular resurrection indicated in that verse and come up with however many resurrection one "sees".

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 You would have to prove -

1.) the THEY  are not resurrected,  or

2.) the THEY are not Christ's at His coming, or

3.) the THEY are not the ones "those who dwell in heaven" (Rev. 12:12), or

4.) the THEY are just the woman being persecuted by the dragon on the earth for 3.5 years.

1 Cor 15:23 IS the proof that ALL believers will be resurrected "when He comes" which is the Second Advent (Heb 9:28), and there is no scenario for any resurrected believer to be IN heaven at any time.  That covers #1-3.  As to #4, it's all symbolic or figures of speech, and I don't know what they refer to.  Nobody does, actually.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 Show us that you can do that.

1 Cor 15:23 does all that.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I'll consider if your explanations are better.This invitation is open to anyone reading along.

My explanation is biblical.  Which is "better":  what the Bible says or what you conclude from figures of speech or metaphors?

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 <<<Without verses, I think not reasonable.  It's conjecture.>>>

It is good interpretation. The NT shows it is unavoidable that some approved will be manifested above mediocrity.

Are you actually suggesting that those who come up with an explanation of metaphors or figures of speech show approval over those who admit we can't know what John was thinking when he wrote???

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 For there must even be parties among you, that those who are approved may become manifest among you. (1 Cor. 11:19)

This verse is in the context of the abuse of the Lord's Table in Corinth.  It has nothing to do with "interpreting" parables, figures of speech or metaphors.  It has everything to do with lifestyle.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

It is wrong conjecture to think Revelation 12's resurrected and raptured man-child is not prophecy of this manifest approvedness.

"wrong conjecture"?  Rather, to CONJECTURE that there is a resurrection and rapture in Ch 12 is wrong.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<All the signs mentioned by John will be obvious when they occur. >>>

This is obviously not true because some of the signs are clearly explained.

Well, excuse me then.  I'll say "most of the signs".  How's that?

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

The mystery of the seven stars which you saw upon My right hand and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Rev. 1:20) 

And some things are said to remain unknown but not all.

Sure.  When verses INCLUDE the meaning, of course.  You know I am referring to all the verses which to NOT include the meaning.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write, and I heard a voice out of heaven, saying, Seal the things which the seven thunders spoke, and do not write them. (Rev. 10:4)

Other signs we may apply wisdom to to ascertain where a good interpretation lies. We may distiguish poorer more unlikely interpretations from better more plaisible ones.

Why don't we just focus on what the Bible clearly states, like 1 Cor 15:23 from which to inform us about the resurrection of believers, and leave all the verses that aren't in plain language alone.

Does it really matter if we don't have the names and addresses of "the 7 thunders"?  How does that change your life?  Not one bit.  That is my view of all the prophecies that are not in plain language.  We'll understand it WHEN (IF) we live through enough of the Tribulation to see these things come to pass.  Before then, we don't need to know.  It's all just guessing and conjecture.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 <<<We have no need to have a full understanding of them before hand.>>>

   But the Lord reveals them to us, why should we refuse to hear?

What's to "hear"?  All you've got so far is conjecture (guessing).  No one knows what John was thinking.  And it doesn't matter because if we are alive when it comes to pass, it will be obvious.  And guess what:  just like Jesus' disciples, it will be confirmation of the veracity of the Bible.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

All the signs may not be pertinent to major tenets of our faith. That is no reason to refuse the possibility that Lord desires us to grow in understanding.

None of what isn't clearly states is pertinent.  It will become exceedingly pertinent to those who will be alive when they come to pass.  

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 <<<All metaphors, figures of speech, etc are up for debate.  >>>

Which is what we are doing.  I am giving reasons for the hope that is within me as I am told to do.

No one is told to try to figure out the metaphors or figures of speech.  They simply describe what will come to pass, and will be pertinent to those who SEE them when they unfold.  None of it will help you now.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

   You're debating that I should have no such hope. So we debate a little. 

Rather, have hope in the clear and plain language of Scripture.  God doesn't expect or even command that we try to figure out the figures of speech.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<<The saints in Rev 19 are all the saints that have died over the millennia, and are awaiting Christ's return to earth.  And they will accompany Him.  >>>

If you read it carefully, you may see that they also are a remnant whomade themselves ready. And what qualifies them to be this wife who is what also qualifies them to be His army.

Sure.  But there is NOTHING to conjecture about this selective resurrection/rapture scenario.  Of course all the spiritually mature believers, the overcomers will be blessed with eternal rewards, and reign with Christ in His kingdom.  But there is nothing about more than 1 resurrection.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

The righteous DEEDS or righteousnessES [sic] of the saints.

That is what will be rewarded.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.

And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints. (Rev. 19:8,9)

The fine linen with which she is adorned is not here the covering soely of justification. Rather it is the fine linen of acts, behaviors, deeds, practical expressions of her living. In other words she has come up to the level of normality and overomer abnormality. 

And the same qualifying living that permits her to attend the marriage feast is ALSO the qualifying characteristics allowing her to accompany Christ from Heaven as His bridal army. 

And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14) 

The fine linen, bright and clean for her readiness for the marriage is also the fine linen, white and clean that is her fighting garmet, her battle armor. 

This combines the overcoming of the man-child who did die and the overcoming of the firstfruits who were raptured alive.  The aspect of loving preparation is combined with the aspect of spiritual warfare.

Rather, all the saints in heaven are all the saints who have already died and therefore are in heaven.  They prepare for the wedding supper, and the end of the Tribulation.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

We also can see that this army of saints who accompany Christ down from heaven is a minority remnant in chapter 17. 

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them. (Rev. 17:14) 

That is pure conjecture.  The army of ch 19 is ALL of the dead saints that accompany the King back to earth, and they are the first to receive resurrection bodies, all explained in 1 Thess 4:13-17.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I believe what the Holy Spirit is showing us and we need to see

Well, I think you are just "seeing things".  My opinion is quite reasonable.  The prophecies couched in figures of speech and metaphors AREN'T meant for anyone before they unfold.  They are meant for believers who will actually SEE them unfold, which will confirm the the veracity of Scripture.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 All the saved are called. And all the saved are chosen.

The Bible says "many are called, FEW are chosen".  Matt 22:14

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

Some add to these actions of God their own cooperation a - faithfulness . . .   they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful . . .

It is usually a minority among the total number of blessed recipients of redemption that overcome with faithfulness. 

This is to what we should endevour to attain, the normalcy of being victors. We potentially in Christ should be more than conquerors (overcomers).

But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us. (Rom. 8:37)

All of this is about spiritual growth to maturity and is NOT about multiple resurrections.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

And it is God's perogative in the end times to manifest some early resurrected and early raptured ones.

No it isn't His "perogative".  That would make the Bible a LIAR, because there are plenty of verses that SAY in plain language that there will be a singular resurrection of all the saved, when He comes back.  

God cannot contradict Himself, which is basically what you are claiming.

12 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I have to stand against an opinion that the divine hands are tied to have only one resurrection / rapture event at the end of the great tribulation. 

"tied"?  Let's not get so dramatic.  What God SAYS goes.  God is consistent and pure TRUTH.  The unclear verses in prophecy aren't for anyone BEFORE they unfold.

God never contradicts Himself, nor does His Word.

I'm really surprised that you say what you do.

[Indentured Servant]

On 1/1/2025 at 5:48 PM, AdHoc said:

It is sad that such a crucial subject does not draw more response. Or perhaps the malady lies elsewhere. Let me venture an opinion.

I'd love nothing more than to engage in a civil discussion of this; but, in my experience with this topic, it tends to lead to a battle between popular doctrines and what is explicitly stated in Scripture.

Scripture mentions two resurrections, referred to as the "first," and the "second." One prior to the millennial reign and one after.

There is no mention of a partial, secret, or alternative resurrection, nor of stages of resurrection. This pointing out of what is written in Scripture is often taken as offensive to some who lean strongly toward a doctrinal position that leads them in what to believe, rather than what Scripture actually says.

There are those who do not accept certain interpretations, but they typically focus on how wrong the OP is. 

 

[FreeGrace]

22 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

I'd love nothing more than to engage in a civil discussion of this; but, in my experience with this topic, it tends to lead to a battle between popular doctrines and what is explicitly stated in Scripture.

Scripture mentions two resurrections, referred to as the "first," and the "second." One prior to the millennial reign and one after.

There is no mention of a partial, secret, or alternative resurrection, nor of stages of resurrection. This pointing out of what is written in Scripture is often taken as offensive to some who lean strongly toward a doctrinal position that leads them in what to believe, rather than what Scripture actually says.

There are those who do not accept certain interpretations, but they typically focus on how wrong the OP is. 

It is good to see others who use the Berean verification method (Acts 17:11) for determining who teaches truth vs who teaches "popular doctrines"!

But it sure is very sad to realize how many believers have been taught erroneous doctrines that cannot be found in Scripture.  And you are correct; it is difficult to maintain a civil discussion with such people.

[Indentured Servant]

40 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

It is good to see others who use the Berean verification method (Acts 17:11) for determining who teaches truth vs who teaches "popular doctrines"!

But it sure is very sad to realize how many believers have been taught erroneous doctrines that cannot be found in Scripture.  And you are correct; it is difficult to maintain a civil discussion with such people.

I had to look up the verse you referenced, haha. I wasn't familiar with the phrase , "Berean verification method."

But yes, I read Scripture daily and listen to it when I sleep. It took me years to unlearn all the doctrinal fodder that has muddied up Scriptural clarity.

I honestly don't mind if someone thinks I'm wrong, the problem begins when they think they have to belittle someone else to stand their ground.