First Hours After America's Downfall

[BlindSeeker]

10 hours ago, abcdef said:

The iron of Dan 2, the 4th beast of Dan 7, the Rev 13 beast, the Rev 17 beast are all the same entity which is Rome.

I cannot agree with you. I have studied history and Scripture prayerfully for almost 4 decades, and dismissed your premise many years ago as both historically inaccurate and not scripturally sound.

I agree with the first 2 being Rome. But with Rev 17  Rome would be the 6th mountain and king.

Egypt and Assyria are before Daniel, therefore he doesn't mention them. He starts counting with the present, Babylon, and then continues with what will be up to the destruction of Rome. 

First Egypt where Israel was birth as a nation coming out, then Assyria (ten northern tribes captivity, then (as Daniel begins his count), 1- Babylon, 2- Medie/Persia, 3- Greece, then 4- Rome.

Rome being "was diverse from all the beasts that were before it," brought Israel to its end as a functioning civil nation with geographical boundaries as it "it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it," dispersing the Jews into the surrounding nation.

That was was the breaking off of the natural olive branch so that the wild olive branch could be grafted  in, "is until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Rome eventually falls from it's height power and is broken up into 10 smaller regions, which are commonly recognized as follows -

1.           The Roman senate. 
2.           The Greeks, in Ravenna. 
3.           The Lombards in Lombardy.
4.           The Huns in Hungary. 
5.           The Alemans, in Germany.
6.           The Franks in France.
7.           The Burgundians in Burgundy.
8.           The Saracens in Africa, and a part of Spain. 
9.           The Goths, in other parts of Spain. 
10.       And the Saxons, in Britain.

It is out of these that the "little horn" comes from, and is never called a as having been a "king" or "kingdom."

Daniel 7:24 – And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [little horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

It is simple history that aligns perfectly with these scriptures that America began as a colonization of Britain, of which both Spain and France sought to gain a foothold of sovereignty in North America region, and over time all three kingdoms claims to such were not only subdued, but could also rightly be said to have been "plucked up by the roots." 

Edited February 8 by BlindSeeker

[abcdef]

8 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

I cannot agree with you. I have studied history and Scripture prayerfully for almost 4 decades, and dismissed your premise many years ago

 

8 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

as both historically inaccurate and not scripturally sound.

What is it that you disagree with? The biggest objection?

This is a friendly discussion so let's have your viewpoint.

[BlindSeeker]

57 minutes ago, abcdef said:

 

What is it that you disagree with? The biggest objection?

This is a friendly discussion so let's have your viewpoint.

Revisit my previous post. I responded on my phone on the way home, but edited it once here.

 

[abcdef]

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

I cannot agree with you. I have studied history and Scripture prayerfully for almost 4 decades, and dismissed your premise many years ago as both historically inaccurate and not scripturally sound.

Sorry, I missed this post, I will respond now.

Historically inaccurate? Not scripturally sound?

I would say that about many theories. People have discussed them for years. Each generation looking at them through different lenses and timelines.

Maybe you think it is the end, I do. But the path I took to get to that conclusion is a different path.

We may both agree that Jesus is coming. The question is what happens just before Jesus comes? 

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

I agree with the first 2 being Rome. But with Rev 17  Rome would be the 6th mountain and king.

5 Have fallen and one "is" at the time of John. That makes Rome the 6th head.

Rome is the beast at the time of John. 

Please consider this question, "The 10 horns appear after one of the heads dies. Which head dies so that the 10 horns, appear? 

If you say the 7th head, that would be right.

But when do the 10 horns appear in history? After Rome fell in 476 AD ish.

Rome divided into a symbolic 10, after it fell in 476 AD.

It means that the 7th  head of the Rev 17 beast is also Rome.

 

The 6th head "is" in 96 AD. The 8th head appears after Rome falls in 476 AD. 

The period in between 96 AD and 476 AD is the period of the 7th head, which is Rome.

This seems to confirm the theory that all the heads of the Rev 17 beast are Rome and not different gentile nations.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Egypt and Assyria are before Daniel, therefore he doesn't mention them.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

He starts counting with the present, Babylon, and then continues with what will be up to the destruction of Rome. 

Dan 2, The statue toes end when Jerusalem is restored to Israel. The statue represents the entire times of the gentiles. That is the time when gentile armies control the children of Israel and Jerusalem.

The times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about in Lk 21:24, is the last part of the statue.

The toes ended in 1967. The times of the gentiles ended in 1967.

The toes ending is not the end of Rome, it is only that Rome ceases to rule over the children of Israel, just before the stone strikes.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

First Egypt where Israel was birth as a nation coming out, then Assyria (ten northern tribes captivity, then (as Daniel begins his count), 1- Babylon, 2- Medie/Persia, 3- Greece, then 4- Rome.

Please notice how the iron is continual from 63 BC until the toes end.

Where are we now in that statue? If someone would say that we were in the iron, That would mean that Rome still was in power over the children of Israel and Jerusalem.

Now, at this present time, no gentile nation is in power over the children of Israel. It means that the statue has ended and the stone is about to strike.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Rome being "was diverse from all the beasts that were before it," brought Israel to its end as a functioning civil nation with geographical boundaries as it "it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it," dispersing the Jews into the surrounding nation.

Yes, yes.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

That was was the breaking off of the natural olive branch so that the wild olive branch could be grafted  in,

The date that the natural branches were broken off was 37 AD when the majority of Israel rejected the Pentecost gospel covenant. Paul wrote about it in Romans before the great scattering of 70 AD ish.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

"is until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

The fulness of the gentiles is related to the restoration of Jerusalem. How could all Israel be saved, if there was no Israel, centralized Israel with a restored Jerusalem?

That is, Israel returns from the gentile nations to restore Jerusalem, then all Israel will be saved. All spiritual Israel in the kingdom, not Israel after the flesh.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Rome eventually falls from it's height power and is broken up into 10 smaller regions, which are commonly recognized as follows -

1.           The Roman senate. 
2.           The Greeks, in Ravenna. 
3.           The Lombards in Lombardy.
4.           The Huns in Hungary. 
5.           The Alemans, in Germany.
6.           The Franks in France.
7.           The Burgundians in Burgundy.
8.           The Saracens in Africa, and a part of Spain. 
9.           The Goths, in other parts of Spain. 
10.       And the Saxons, in Britain.

What about Egypt? The land of Israel? And other nations in the eastern part of the Empire? The 10 is a symbolic number that shows, in this case, complete division.

What about the clay nations on each toe? Aren't they nations that should be counted also? Now we have at least 20 individual nations.

The Dan 2 statue shows the Roman Empire legs divide into east and west in the 3rd century. There are 5 toes on each foot. If the numbers are literal, then there would be 5 European toes and 5 toes of the middle east.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

It is out of these that the "little horn" comes from, and is never called a as having been a "king" or "kingdom."

The little horn (11th) of Dan 7, must have great power to remove 3 other horns by the roots. 

How would the little horn pluck them out, if not with military force? 

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

Daniel 7:24 – And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [little horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

 

1 hour ago, BlindSeeker said:

It is simple history that aligns perfectly with these scriptures that America began as a colonization of Britain, of which both Spain and France sought to gain a foothold of sovereignty in North America region, and over time all three kingdoms claims to such were not only subdued, but could also rightly be said to have been "plucked up by the roots." 

Plucked up by the roots,

This would seem to mean that the 3 horns of Dan 7, are not alive or exist anymore as nations. But Britain, France, and Spain still exist, they still are alive and have roots.

Remember that the beast is Rome and the horns are Rome divided. 

The statue of Dan 2 and the beasts of Dan 7 are about nations that rule over the children of Israel.

The iron of the Dan 2 statue shows that Rome rules over the children of Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem.

Since Jerusalem was restored in 1967, the time of the Dan 2 iron, the toes, and the events associated with it are over. Since the time of the horns/toes are over America cannot be one of them.

[BlindSeeker]

11 hours ago, abcdef said:

Sorry, I missed this post, I will respond now.

Historically inaccurate? Not scripturally sound?

I would say that about many theories. People have discussed them for years. Each generation looking at them through different lenses and timelines.

Maybe you think it is the end, I do. But the path I took to get to that conclusion is a different path.

We may both agree that Jesus is coming. The question is what happens just before Jesus comes? 

 

5 Have fallen and one "is" at the time of John. That makes Rome the 6th head.

Rome is the beast at the time of John. 

Please consider this question, "The 10 horns appear after one of the heads dies. Which head dies so that the 10 horns, appear? 

If you say the 7th head, that would be right.

But when do the 10 horns appear in history? After Rome fell in 476 AD ish.

Rome divided into a symbolic 10, after it fell in 476 AD.

It means that the 7th  head of the Rev 17 beast is also Rome.

 

The 6th head "is" in 96 AD. The 8th head appears after Rome falls in 476 AD. 

The period in between 96 AD and 476 AD is the period of the 7th head, which is Rome.

This seems to confirm the theory that all the heads of the Rev 17 beast are Rome and not different gentile nations.

 

 

Dan 2, The statue toes end when Jerusalem is restored to Israel. The statue represents the entire times of the gentiles. That is the time when gentile armies control the children of Israel and Jerusalem.

The times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke about in Lk 21:24, is the last part of the statue.

The toes ended in 1967. The times of the gentiles ended in 1967.

The toes ending is not the end of Rome, it is only that Rome ceases to rule over the children of Israel, just before the stone strikes.

 

Please notice how the iron is continual from 63 BC until the toes end.

Where are we now in that statue? If someone would say that we were in the iron, That would mean that Rome still was in power over the children of Israel and Jerusalem.

Now, at this present time, no gentile nation is in power over the children of Israel. It means that the statue has ended and the stone is about to strike.

 

Yes, yes.

 

The date that the natural branches were broken off was 37 AD when the majority of Israel rejected the Pentecost gospel covenant. Paul wrote about it in Romans before the great scattering of 70 AD ish.

 

The fulness of the gentiles is related to the restoration of Jerusalem. How could all Israel be saved, if there was no Israel, centralized Israel with a restored Jerusalem?

That is, Israel returns from the gentile nations to restore Jerusalem, then all Israel will be saved. All spiritual Israel in the kingdom, not Israel after the flesh.

 

What about Egypt? The land of Israel? And other nations in the eastern part of the Empire? The 10 is a symbolic number that shows, in this case, complete division.

What about the clay nations on each toe? Aren't they nations that should be counted also? Now we have at least 20 individual nations.

The Dan 2 statue shows the Roman Empire legs divide into east and west in the 3rd century. There are 5 toes on each foot. If the numbers are literal, then there would be 5 European toes and 5 toes of the middle east.

 

The little horn (11th) of Dan 7, must have great power to remove 3 other horns by the roots. 

How would the little horn pluck them out, if not with military force? 

 

 

Plucked up by the roots,

This would seem to mean that the 3 horns of Dan 7, are not alive or exist anymore as nations. But Britain, France, and Spain still exist, they still are alive and have roots.

Remember that the beast is Rome and the horns are Rome divided. 

The statue of Dan 2 and the beasts of Dan 7 are about nations that rule over the children of Israel.

The iron of the Dan 2 statue shows that Rome rules over the children of Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem.

Since Jerusalem was restored in 1967, the time of the Dan 2 iron, the toes, and the events associated with it are over. Since the time of the horns/toes are over America cannot be one of them.

Thanks for taking your time to respond. It is obvious you were set in your path as I am mine. That is okay. Blessings to you and yours.