This is my understanding to why grace cannot be earned. I have given an illustration to explain my thoughts..

[BlindEyes]

3 hours ago, Fran C said:

OK BlindEyes

I wish you success in your endeavor to mortify sins.

Just want to say that REPENT has a specific meaning, which I do believe I explained.

You don't KEEP ON repenting...you repent ONE TIME.  A person does not keep on repenting.

After that, you feel sorrow for your sins, you confess to God, and you are forgiven.

God bless you.

You are right when you say to repent is "to turn around and go the other way...turn from satan and go toward God." However, what do you mean by saying that? Do I turn towards God and put righteousness into practice yet still commit sins worthy of death or do I do what is right and am righteous and He is righteous while forsaking sins that lead to death? Pure as He is pure? Holy as He is holy? Perfect as He is perfect? For without holiness no one shall see the Lord. 

 

The definition to repentance from the strong's concordance on biblehub is below. 

I personally believe repentance IS the process of mortifying ones sins by having a change of heart, a heart of flesh and a renewed mind, turning from sin and returning to God and His ways. I have already felt sorrow for my sins. I have already confessed to God. I have turned toward God yet I still commit sins worthy of death like lying. I don't have the Holy Spirit. I have no power or authority. The promises of God don't seem to be my reality like being able to do the impossible. I can pray in Jesus name yet I have no power. However, Acts 2:38, 5:32; John 14:23-24; and 1 John 3:24 tells who is born again, born of the Spirit. For it is the Spirit that gives life. Notice how Acts 2:38 says to repent to receive the Holy Spirit yet the others say to receive the Holy Spirit we must love and obey. Scripture says the road to life is strait and narrow, few shall find it. Yet it is the Holy Spirit that gives life. So is it safe to say few have the Holy Spirit? If repentance was sorrow for ones sins and confession to God then most churches on the planet have repented and have received the Holy Spirit...so they have life. If they all have life they all have power. If they all have power, all believers would be followed by signs, wonders and miracles. God promised. I should be moving mountains. I should be able to do the same works as Christ and even greater. I should be able to have a type of authority over the planet where I can rebuke a storm or tell a tree to uproot and be planted in the waters. Nothing should be impossible for me. God promised and He cannot lie. Yet I have gone in a couple churches and it's like a public school of the world. You have a lesson. Maybe sing a song, pray a prayer or worship the Lord but there is no power. The presence of God is not there. They have no power. Maybe a form of godliness but no power. With the Holy Spirit comes power. I believe repentance is turning away from dead works. I believe repentance is mortifying sins that lead to death, sins that do not inherit the kingdom. That is, if repentance leads to life.

 

Revelation 3:1-6

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

 

◄ 3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Lexicon metanoeó: Repent Original Word: μετανοέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: metanoeó Pronunciation: meh-tah-no-EH-oh Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o) Definition: Repent Meaning: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent. Word Origin: From the Greek words "meta" (meaning "after" or "beyond") and "noeo" (meaning "to think" or "to perceive"), thus implying a change of mind or heart. Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with repentance is "שׁוּב" (shuv, Strong's H7725), which means to turn back or return, emphasizing a return to God and His ways. Usage: The term "metanoeó" is primarily used in the New Testament to denote a profound change of mind and heart, often associated with turning away from sin and turning towards God. It involves a recognition of wrongdoing, a sincere regret or remorse, and a commitment to change one's behavior and align with God's will. This concept is central to the Christian message of salvation and is often linked with faith and conversion.

[BlindEyes]

14 hours ago, enoob57 said:

what= Only God and 2/3 of angels are sinless ... so righteousness must be given!

why not earned= Place the price on God's Own Son given because that is what it took to give us that righteouness... 

Even if God imputes righteousness to the believer I personally believe one can have their name blotted out of the book of life if they commit sins worthy of death. Those sins that do not inherit the kingdom of God like idolatry. If they turn away from idolatry and stop doing it through repentance, good, but if they die in their sins, if they die as an idolatry, are they saved?

Edited January 11 by BlindEyes

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, BlindEyes said:

Even if God imputes righteousness to the believer I personally believe one can have their name blotted out of the book of life if they commit sins worthy of death. Those sins that do not inherit the kingdom of God like idolatry. If they turn away from idolatry and stop doing it through repentance, good, but if they die in their sins, if they die as an idolatry, are they saved?

then you are a works based salvation and the Bible does not teach that!

[BlindEyes]

12 hours ago, Who me said:

Gracy cannot be earned.

But in the illustration  the subject learnt his pardon by his changed life. Had he not changed he would not have been granted a pardon.

 

In Christianity it is the other way round. We are pardoned and as a result our lives are changed.

He may have changed his heart and became a law abiding citizen but that is not what gave him the pardon. Guilt cannot be removed by obedience as illustrated. As for forgiveness, does one need to repent first to receive forgiveness? You say "we are pardoned and as a result our lives are changed." If we are pardoned first, those who die without a changed life, will they still inherit eternal life? Give me some bible verses that says we are pardoned first. I believe repentance comes first.

 

 

 

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

 

Romans 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

Romans 7:24-25

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

Romans 8:13

 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 John 3:7

 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

Matthew 19:17

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

John 8:31-36

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

 

Romans 6:12-23

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

 

Edited January 11 by BlindEyes

[Fran C]

25 minutes ago, BlindEyes said:

You are right when you say to repent is "to turn around and go the other way...turn from satan and go toward God." However, what do you mean by saying that? Do I turn towards God and put righteousness into practice yet still commit sins worthy of death or do I do what is right and am righteous and He is righteous while forsaking sins that lead to death? Pure as He is pure? Holy as He is holy? Perfect as He is perfect? For without holiness no one shall see the Lord. 

 

The definition to repentance from the strong's concordance on biblehub is below. 

I personally believe repentance IS the process of mortifying ones sins by having a change of heart, a heart of flesh and a renewed mind, turning from sin and returning to God and His ways. I have already felt sorrow for my sins. I have already confessed to God. I have turned toward God yet I still commit sins worthy of death like lying. I don't have the Holy Spirit. I have no power or authority. The promises of God don't seem to be my reality like being able to do the impossible. I can pray in Jesus name yet I have no power. However, Acts 2:38, 5:32; John 14:23-24; and 1 John 3:24 tells who is born again, born of the Spirit. For it is the Spirit that gives life. Notice how Acts 2:38 says to repent to receive the Holy Spirit yet the others say to receive the Holy Spirit we must love and obey. Scripture says the road to life is strait and narrow, few shall find it. Yet it is the Holy Spirit that gives life. So is it safe to say few have the Holy Spirit? If repentance was sorrow for ones sins and confession to God then most churches on the planet have repented and have received the Holy Spirit...so they have life. If they all have life they all have power. If they all have power, all believers would be followed by signs, wonders and miracles. God promised. I should be moving mountains. I should be able to do the same works as Christ and even greater. I should be able to have a type of authority over the planet where I can rebuke a storm or tell a tree to uproot and be planted in the waters. Nothing should be impossible for me. God promised and He cannot lie. Yet I have gone in a couple churches and it's like a public school of the world. You have a lesson. Maybe sing a song, pray a prayer or worship the Lord but there is no power. The presence of God is not there. They have no power. Maybe a form of godliness but no power. With the Holy Spirit comes power. I believe repentance is turning away from dead works. I believe repentance is mortifying sins that lead to death, sins that do not inherit the kingdom. That is, if repentance leads to life.

 

Revelation 3:1-6

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 

 

◄ 3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Lexicon metanoeó: Repent Original Word: μετανοέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: metanoeó Pronunciation: meh-tah-no-EH-oh Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o) Definition: Repent Meaning: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent. Word Origin: From the Greek words "meta" (meaning "after" or "beyond") and "noeo" (meaning "to think" or "to perceive"), thus implying a change of mind or heart. Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with repentance is "שׁוּב" (shuv, Strong's H7725), which means to turn back or return, emphasizing a return to God and His ways. Usage: The term "metanoeó" is primarily used in the New Testament to denote a profound change of mind and heart, often associated with turning away from sin and turning towards God. It involves a recognition of wrongdoing, a sincere regret or remorse, and a commitment to change one's behavior and align with God's will. This concept is central to the Christian message of salvation and is often linked with faith and conversion.

It's good that you check Strong's.  Repent is used incorrectly, but that's another story.  

As to the rest....I think if you think you could be perfect, then so be it.

If we could be perfect why did John write his first letter?  And why do you keep bringing up sins that lead to death?  Are you thinking of committing sins that lead to death?

If you THINK that someone is dressed badly and think that someone is being stupid, is that a sin?  Are you going to stop your thoughts too?

Like I said...I'm certainly not here to discourage you.  I just hope you're still a Christian 40 years from now.

 

[BlindEyes]

17 minutes ago, Fran C said:

It's good that you check Strong's.  Repent is used incorrectly, but that's another story.  

As to the rest....I think if you think you could be perfect, then so be it.

If we could be perfect why did John write his first letter?  And why do you keep bringing up sins that lead to death?  Are you thinking of committing sins that lead to death?

If you THINK that someone is dressed badly and think that someone is being stupid, is that a sin?  Are you going to stop your thoughts too?

Like I said...I'm certainly not here to discourage you.  I just hope you're still a Christian 40 years from now.

 

Well, you mention wicked thoughts and that's interesting that you bring that up but they teach that we will be tempted. How will temptation come without wicked thoughts? I do not believe temptation in itself, if resisted, I don't believe it leads to death. We must have our hearts purified though. As for temptation, a test must be passed. Yet many live as if there is no test. I believe Job went through a similar test and maybe Peter as well when sifted as wheat. Where in scripture does it say wicked thoughts will not inherit the kingdom?

 

 

1 Peter 4:12

Beloved, don’t be astonished at the fiery trial which has come upon you to test you, as though a strange thing happened to you.

 

James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

1 Corinthians 10:13

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Edited January 11 by BlindEyes

[BlindEyes]

11 hours ago, Tristen said:

Since perfect holiness is the required standard of righteousness, and since all come short of that required standard, there is no super-righteous act by which we can earn our way back to righteousness. Therefore, righteousness, along with the associated favor (grace) that comes with being righteous, can only be attained through a gift from God.

It also means Jesus (having purchased our righteousness through His cross) is entitled to all of the glory for our righteousness.

 

All may have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God yet I believe there are still some sins that will prevent someone from inheriting eternal life like murder and hatred. They must resist and mortify these sins in order to go on to God's kingdom. As for holiness, without holiness no one shall see the Lord..

[Fran C]

9 minutes ago, BlindEyes said:

Well, you mention wicked thoughts and that's interesting that you bring that up but they teach that we will be tempted. How will temptation come without wicked thoughts? I do not believe temptation in itself, if resisted, I don't believe it leads to death. We must have our hearts purified though. As for temptation, a test must be passed. Yet many live as if there is no test. I believe Job went through a similar test and maybe Peter as well when sifted as wheat. Where in scripture does it say wicked thoughts will not inherit the kingdom?

 

 

1 Peter 4:12

Beloved, don’t be astonished at the fiery trial which has come upon you to test you, as though a strange thing happened to you.

 

James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

1 Corinthians 10:13

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

IF you're planning on being perfect, then thoughts will be a part of being perfect.  I don't believe Jesus had any bad thoughts and you want to be perfect as He was perfect.

Also, I asked you a question to which you didn't reply...this happens often on these threads:

Why did John write his first letter...se chapters 1 and the beginning of chapter 2.

Also...what do you think John meant in 1 John 3:9?

You posted some verse in your reply to me....Do you want me to exegete them?  We're not having a debate about anything so I don't understand why you're posting scripture.  Sorry 'bout that.

[BlindEyes]

Just because works of obedience do not save us doesn't mean they aren't a MUST. They may not remove guilt but I personally believe one cannot commit certain sins like murder, hate or idolatry and be saved from the wrath of God. Sins like extortion, magic practice, homosexuality, drunkenness are said to be absolutely forbidden. These sins are said not to inherit the kingdom..

[BlindEyes]

59 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

then you are a works based salvation and the Bible does not teach that!

Like I said before, works cannot remove guilt. However there are sins that do not inherit the kingdom. There are sins that inherit the lake of fire instead. God does not and cannot lie.