Unravelling Revelation

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On 2/27/2025 at 8:33 PM, Locust said:

no they are alive and well

Again, not a real answer with scriptural support.

Do you even know what you believe?

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On 3/1/2025 at 1:27 PM, DeighAnn said:

Not that many, not that many had been born.  Prior to Christ being raised, there were few because being guilty of one sin or thousands didn't matter under the law as far as being raised up at the death of the flesh and blood house/tent. 

What about people who lived before the Law of Moses? Gentiles who lived before Jacob and Moses? They were not under the Law.

Were any of their souls saved? Those under the Law are judged by the Law. Those without the Law are judged without Law (grace). Rom 3:28.

When the 33 AD resurrection took place, there were 2 groups. Israel and gentiles.

The 144000 are Israel and the multitudes are gentiles, Rev 7.

 

On 3/1/2025 at 1:27 PM, DeighAnn said:

Agreed.  The captivity held 'under the law' along with 

Eph 4:8, The captivity was sin. The OT souls could not be resurrected until Jesus shed His blood for sin and was resurrected.

 

On 3/1/2025 at 1:27 PM, DeighAnn said:

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 

 

On 3/1/2025 at 1:27 PM, DeighAnn said:

Don't they fall under the gifts and calling of God?

Israel today does fall under the gifts and calling of God and the promises to the fathers.

 

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On 3/1/2025 at 6:51 PM, DeighAnn said:

"For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9 KJV
 

8Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

9For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

10All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

The Restoration of Israel

11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

15And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

On 3/1/2025 at 6:51 PM, DeighAnn said:

I don't know how that addresses the question.  

The question was about God changing the minds of people and then punishing them for it.

Rom 9:21-22, Shows that God will do what He wants. It is not our place to question why God makes some vessels for destruction and some for honor.

All things are to honor God, both vessels for glory and vessels for destruction.

 

On 3/1/2025 at 6:51 PM, DeighAnn said:

"For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9 KJV

 

On 3/1/2025 at 6:51 PM, DeighAnn said:

Would seem they would have to become Christians....

Not those Jews.  Jews can be inhabitants of Jerusalem, not of the bloodline at all.  

 

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On 2/27/2025 at 8:30 PM, truth7t7 said:

Jesus Christ will return in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End) 

All human life ends when the fire from heaven strikes, Rev 20, and the planet turns to fire.

The planet is not dissolved. It remains intact as a planet.

The end of the material planet is to "fly away" from the throne, Rev 20:11. what happens to the material earth after that is not shown.

This is parallel to Dan 2:35, where the chaff flies away.

 

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On 2/27/2025 at 11:35 PM, Locust said:

what you are reading is a 

hy·per·bo·le

 

1. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally:

 

2 Peter 3:10, If it is a hyperbole, then explain what it means.

[Locust]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

revelation is  written in the form of signs. any thing that can be alluded to is done symbolically

do you understand ?.....very little of revelation can be taken literally  

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Okay. I will answer this.

The Lord Jesus is predicted to return to earth. Presently He sits sits at the right hand of His Father "above the highest heaven" (Eph.4:10). At some point our Lord Jesus leaves His Father's throne to receive His own. This happens in Revelation 4 in heaven. John is present. In Chapter 14 another company of men who were "firstfruits" are in the same setting. These are men who are children of God seeing as they have His name. So a loving meeting occurs in heaven with FIRSTFRUITS.

The ten Virgins go out to meet the Lord. He delays. They die  just as millions of Christians have done since the Apostles. A call goes out and they RISE and proceed to meet the Lord According to 1st Thessalonians 4 they meet the Lord in the clouds. That is, Jesus will spend some time of His downward journey hidden in the clouds. The raptured Christians face the "traveling throne of Christ" - the Bema (Rom.14:10, 2nd Cor.5:10). After judging the whole Church, which takes some time, Our Lord Jesus returns to earth FROM the clouds (Act.1:8).

All the while the Great Tribulation is raging. AS the Tribulation ends (as you correctly said), signs of God's judgment, as predicted by Joel, are seen in the sky. Then, the Son of man burst through the clouds over mount Olives and saves Jerusalem. The Jews see Who has come through the clouds and mourn. The ensuing battle and ensuing judgment causes havoc on earth.

Now, consider this, every verse you produced is fulfilled ACCURATELY - and I mean accurately. Look at your verses. Not one says anything about destruction of the earth. It is judged and scarred, but not obliterated. The Lord gets His own throne - the "throne of His glory" (Matt.25:31). The Virgins of Chapter 14 are raptured to heaven. They are first-ripe. They have the wedding garment, They are perfected before the Lord.

Then the Lord halts His downward journey to judge the General Harvest of Christians IN THE AIR (1st Thess.4). Then, when millions of Christians have been judged, the Lord leaves the clouds to deal with Israel and the NATIONS. His throne is set up in Jerusalem and He judges the NATION of Israel and "ALL Nations".

This scenario fulfills all your claims except 2nd Peter. But if you were to accept that Revelation 20 speaks of a "DAY" IN WHICH the Lord fights Armageddon, subdues His enemies and subdues death, all you would have to do is define that "DAY" as being "The DAY of God" and that would mean it was 1,000 years long. The position  you hold would fit perfectly if you took the "DAY" of the Lord to mean 1,000 years.

I'm sure you will consider this. Take your time.

That sounds like a screen write for Aesop's fables, perhaps a Sci-Fi movie

Jesus is revealed/returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

"Destroyed Them All"!

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

Edited March 3 by truth7t7

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56 minutes ago, Locust said:

do you understand ?.....very little of revelation can be taken literally  

The symbols represent events and entities that are literal.

There are literal things like John, Jesus, angels, souls, the throne of God, and the resurrections.

 

[Locust]

3 hours ago, abcdef said:

The 144000 are Israel and the multitudes are gentiles, Rev 7.

there may be many that are of Israel included in that group ,but not all.  there's also something known as spiritual Israel. they make up the rest of the number. 

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, abcdef said:

The 2 witnesses do not rule the world.

They can't even return to Jerusalem until the gentile trampling is finished Rev 11:2-3.

 

 The Roman beast nation does not rule the planet.

It only rules over the "earth" of Israel.

The Roman beast nation cannot reach Israel when they flee into the gentile nations, Rev 12.

That means he does not control the gentile nations.

 

 

I Disagree With Your Claims