Vickilynn Posted December 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2007 I think I've figured out what our delimma is Vickilynn. It's not that I am saying works produce salvation, it's that you "aren't" willing to say that salvation without good works/fruit is really a "lost" person. Which is what I'm getting at. If you say you have faith, show me your faith with your works, because a faith without works is _________________? Produce fruit worthy of repentance. In His Love, Suzanne Shalom Suzanne, Uh huh, it's not you, it's everyone else! Why don't you open a NEW thread, asking this question. For this thread you asked this question: My question is, "do you agree with this?" "Are fruits and works compatible in meaning to you?" So THAT'S the answer you're gonna get in this thread. And no, fruit and works are not the same thing, as Island Rose said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Dear Suzanne, As an Independent Baptist, you must know I have heard the subject of "separation" done to death. The accusations of "legalism" and the cries of "Christian liberty" are something I've heard all my life. I believe there has to be a balance there somewhere. The Bible teaches that we are to be a "peculiar" people (peculiar meaning set apart, NOT strange) If we live the exact lifestyle as the world, what is there to be a witness of the change. On the other hand, it is easy for one who is living all the listed "standards" of their church to lean on their "good works" rather than on the Lord for their salvation. I had one friend who left our church when I confronted her about a moral sin she was openly involved in. Her words to me were: " You don't know how hard it is to live with one foot in the church and one foot in the world." I told her that that was her very problem. We are not suppose to be living that way. We are suppose to have BOTH feet planted firmly on the narrow path. IR :il: My pastor calls this "Compartmentalizing your Christianity". Living one way during the week and another when you come to church. How sad that your friend didn't realize this. If you think you can live like the world all week, it's going to effect your worship of the Lord God Almighty! There is no way around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted December 11, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2007 fruit is different than salvation, fruit is different than Faith. Although Faith is a component of the fruit. Look at that word...it is one fruit, many different parts that make up that fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted December 12, 2007 fruit is different than salvation, fruit is different than Faith. Although Faith is a component of the fruit. Look at that word...it is one fruit, many different parts that make up that fruit. A branch bears fruit after it's own kind (That is, after the tree's own kind) according to the life supply from the tree. A branch that is receiving a full supply from the tree will bear much fruit. A branch that is not receiving the full supply of the tree will not bear fruit. As branches of the vine (Christ) our fruit bearing (works) is dependent upon the amount of supply (That is the supply of the divine life) we receive from the vine. A believer who is fully engaged with gaining Christ is supplied with the divine life, and produces fruits according to his measure of faith. Any works apart from the vine are simply products of the flesh and are not profitable for the kingdom; even if those works are deemed "good" in man's eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2007 fruit is different than salvation, fruit is different than Faith. Although Faith is a component of the fruit. Look at that word...it is one fruit, many different parts that make up that fruit. A branch bears fruit after it's own kind (That is, after the tree's own kind) according to the life supply from the tree. A branch that is receiving a full supply from the tree will bear much fruit. A branch that is not receiving the full supply of the tree will not bear fruit. As branches of the vine (Christ) our fruit bearing (works) is dependent upon the amount of supply (That is the supply of the divine life) we receive from the vine. A believer who is fully engaged with gaining Christ is supplied with the divine life, and produces fruits according to his measure of faith. Any works apart from the vine are simply products of the flesh and are not profitable for the kingdom; even if those works are deemed "good" in man's eyes. I agree. May I add the Word? John 15:1-8 The True Vine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted December 12, 2007 damo1 the way i see this for my self is this John 3 new spirit filled life bible the new birth 1 there was a man of the pharisees named nicodemus a ruler of the jews 2 this man came to jesus by night and said to him rabbi we know that you are a teacher come from god for no one can do these signs that you do unless god is with him 3 jesus answerd him and said most asssuredly i say to you unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of god 4 nicodemus said to him how can a man be born when he is old can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born 5 jesus answerd most assuredly i say to you unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of god 6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit 7 do not marvel that i said to you you must be born again 8 the wind blows were it wishes and you hear the sound of it but cannot tell were it comes from and where it goes so is everyone who is born of the spirit this is how i see this question for my self works of the spirit fruits of the spirit john 15 the true vine new spirit filled life bible 1 i am the true vine and my father is the vinedresser 2 every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away and every branch that bears fruit he prunes that it may bear more fruit 3 you are already clean because of the word which i have spoken to you 4 abide in me and i in you as the branch cannot bear fruit of its self unless it abides in the vine neither can you unless you abide in me 5 i am the vine you are the branches he who abides in me and i in him bears much fruit for with out me you can do nothing all i ask is that you respect what i have shared to how i see this for my self as i love reading gods word this is how i am able to understand what jesus did for me on the cross i always ask the holy spirit to sit by my side that way no confussion comes in when i am reading gods word i also like to dig at the root of the word with out twisting things around i am in a good church and i am also with some like minded people when we pick a verse or a topic we discuss this openly and honestly the way i do this also is to ask the holy spirit to bring anything up in me that needs to be dealt with as i am hungry for gods word i want to walk with like minded souls who see things the way i do when it comes to gods word or a topic i have shared what this topic means for damien with out picking on any one else i have taken my time to read this and i feel this topic is like nicodemus talking to jesus if we open our selves up to the holy spirit guidence and guiding how can this get to wear its confusing gods word is so simple to understand if we have a teach able spirit and alow the truth of his word to sink in as it should be strengthening us it should be food for our spirit as gods spirit is a living being he is hear to help us if we alow him to do this when it comes to the bibles we read god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsth Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 297 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,586 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 193 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/09/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 How important is the term "works/fruit" in this passage? Is it important enough to give it noteable consideration as far as discussion, OR do we dismiss it? How serious is it? (I just wish we wouldn't be so fearful of the issue/topic. It's as if it has become a bad word or something?) It's worth acknowledging, isn't it? In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2007 I'm glad to see that you went back and edited your first line, for as much as I tried, reading the post three times, I could not find the word "works". It is important to bear good fruit, as the scripture states. The question we need to ask is what is the difference between works and fruit? Works is the action. Fruit is the result. We can do many works for the Lord, which we may never see the fruits of our labor. It is a blessing when we do. As I stated in the post two prior to yours, if we do not bear fruit, we will be cast into the fire. This is the same fire our works will be tested with. If our works are of wood, hay or straw, they will not stand, and we loose our reward. He is scripture to back it: 1 Corinthians 3:12-14 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hello Suzanne, I understand how you are seeing the above scriptures you mentioned and it definitely appear to be interpreted to me in another way. Jesus was talking to Pharisees who refused to bow to antiochus and stood true to the law, the prophets and the psalms. They were legalistic separists who, by the time of Christ was merely religious and relying more upon the tradition of the fathers they they did on scripture. He was rejecting them here as religionists, hypocrits and prejudices in many other areas. The following scriptures in Luke give bigger picture, and follows further explanation in Luke 13. But he is discussing nonchristians, and bring forth fruits worthy of repentance if you know the tree, Jesus, you will bring forth fruit being part of the vine in which one would not mind giving away a tunic. It is the same with the rich man when Jesus tells him to follow Him ater giving everything he had away. The man walked away. pruneing is important as well in a christians Life in order for more fruit to be beared. By their fruit you will know that they are christians, works occur because of the fruit. You need to be have love, not the worlds Love but the Love Jesus gives in order to love the unlovely in the way He would. One needs faith to be obedient to the call and move in Love. I hope I helped a little. patricia1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraught Posted December 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,741 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/30/1959 Share Posted December 12, 2007 We are different than they because we are lazy. We take things for granted. We are not as much out of the world. We picked up some idols along the way, and it shows. JMO Lazy or afraid of offending? There is a work in the Lord, that WE, this church age is neglecting........it is the healing of the sick/sin-burdened. In order to do that, we must walk in the Spirit/live a different way, and then we must tell them the Truth about sin! They must be told, lest they not be set free by the Truth. And man do we have the idols! I'm really having to get a handle on the Wal-mart trips It is now entertainment for us isn't it? Our buying I mean. Or at least it is here sometimes and the Lord is speaking to me about it. What if......I had to do without.........what if, all was taken away from us, would I still give thanks unto the Lord, or would I walk in where He put me? Forgive me for going off in so many different directions, I am just really needing to speak of these things, and the idolatry, as you know trav. has been heavy on my heart in terms of the Word, and what It says. Peace to you. In His Love, Suzanne be anxious for nothing, He says. even the walmart trips in my experience, the Lord knows better than we do what is in our souls that needs dealing with. if this were to grow to be a problem with you, well then i'm sure you know that He would be able to allow you the circumstances! in no way do i think you are wrong about the importance of seeking righteousness. i would just like to add that thankfulness to God for the blessings we do have is a part of our righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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