Yes, Jesus meant TODAY in his message to the thief on the cross

[Frits]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

At death the three parts are sundered - the body returning to the clay, the spirit returning to God and the SOUL going to a place under the earth called Hades.

That is your conclusion, and those are your own words. Where in Scripture does it say that at death the soul and the spirit are separated at that moment? Why don't the soul and the spirit both go to Hades, or do they both go to God?

Edited Thursday at 07:28 AM by Frits

[Frits]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The SOUL of Jesus, therefor is Jesus.

This is completely wrong and a very wrong representation of the Lord Jesus Christ! Your absurd reasoning does not agree at all with what is written in our Bible:

1Co 15:47 KJV 

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

2Co 3:17 KJV 

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[Frits]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

He, having power over His death, gave "UP" the ghost" at 3 p.m. According to James 2:26 this rendered Him dead.

Again, completely incorrect! The body of the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross, but His Spirit was at that moment endued with the Power of the Most High, that is, the Lord Jesus Christ took up His supremacy and majesty as God and King again. And as such, as Ruler, He entered Hades to preach His Gospel there and to liberate from that realm of the dead the spirits of the righteous dead people!

1Pe 4:6 KJV  

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Edited Thursday at 09:25 AM by Frits

[Michael37]

22 hours ago, Frits said:

He entered Hades to preach His Gospel there and to liberate from that realm of the dead the spirits of the righteous dead people!

According to Ephesians 2:1-7 Postmortem Evangelism of the righteous is unnecessary.

Eph 2:1-7  And you were dead in the trespasses and sins  (2)  in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—  (3)  among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.  (4)  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,  (5)  even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—  (6)  and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  (7)  so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 3:19 has dealt with the spirits in prison, namely those who opposed God in Noah's day and are in Hades.

1 Peter 4:6 The KJV is a better translation for this one because it avoids the error of the so-called "preaching to the dead" (Postmortem Evangelism) which is a misconstruction of what is simply the fact that those who had the gospel preached to them while they were alive subsequently died...and were dead at the time of Peter's writing the epistle. These people were "judged" as trouble makers and put to death for their faith, but of course in Christ live on.

I realise there are contrary opinions but that's normally the case with some passages in the Bible so in the end each makes up their own mind.

1Pe 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

These saints now deceased in the context above, were subject to scrutiny by those they lived among, showing they believed the gospel and lived it for God.

[Frits]

59 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

According to Ephesians 2:1-7 Postmortem Evangelism of the righteous is unnecessary.

Eph 2:1-7  And you were dead in the trespasses and sins  (2)  in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—  (3)  among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.  (4)  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,  (5)  even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—  (6)  and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  (7)  so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 3:9 has dealt with the spirits in prison, namely those who opposed God in Noah's day and are in Hades.

1 Peter 4:6 The KJV is a better translation for this one because it avoids the error of the so-called "preaching to the dead" (Postmortem Evangelism) which is a misconstruction of what is simply the fact that those who had the gospel preached to them while they were alive subsequently died...and were dead at the time of Peter's writing the epistle. These people were "judged" as trouble makers and put to death for their faith, but of course in Christ live on.

I realise there are contrary opinions but that's normally the case with some passages in the Bible so in the end each makes up their own mind.

1Pe 4:6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

These saints now deceased in the context above, were subject to scrutiny by those they lived among, showing they believed the gospel and lived it for God.

 

New King James Version

For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

Hebr.2:16

Edited Thursday at 11:20 AM by Frits

[Frits]

13 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Jesus first met Mary and reported that He had not yet ASCENDED to the Father, but was about to do so. That night He had returned and allowed the Apostles to touch Him and declared that His substance was not spirit, but flesh and bones.

So you are proposing it unbiblical, dividing the Lord Jesus Christ soul and Spirit!

(a) That is impossible, neither height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to divide Him. (Deut.6:4)

(b) His soul then speaks to Mary, but without His Spirit, because He had gone to God, hadn't He?

(c) And finally, His Spirit had to return to earth and be united with His soul, so that He could appear to the apostles, right?

 

Edited Thursday at 10:51 AM by Frits

[Frits]

37 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

1 Peter 3:9 has dealt with the spirits in prison, namely those who opposed God in Noah's day and are in Hades.

You mean verse 19? Can you tell me what translation this is?

 

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Frits said:

That is your conclusion, and those are your own words. Where in Scripture does it say that at death the soul and the spirit are separated at that moment? Why don't the soul and the spirit both go to Hades, or do they both go to God?

Of course it is my conclusion. I have outlined, with scripture that the Lord "gave UP the ghost" after saying that His Father should receive His spirit. Ecclesiastes 3:21 agrees. James 2:26 says that a man without a spirit is dead. In Luke 8:55 a person was resurrected. It needed her spirit to "come to her"

Jesus said He would descend to the heart of the earth for three days (Mat.12:40). Ephesians 4:8-10 says that Jesus FIRST DESCENDED. John 20:17 says that He had NOT YET ASCENDED. Acts 2:24-34 says that Jesus was in Hades but it could not hold Him. David though is still there in Hades while his body is in his TOMB in Jerusalem. That is, BOTH our Lord Jesus and David met the same fate at death, but Jesus has left Hades while David has not.

David will (future tense) be raised up to rule Israel (Jer.30:9). This will be after the Church is complete (Act.15:14-16). But Jesus has been RISEN for nearly 2,000 years. The Apostles touched Him on resurrection night.

Now it is your turn to document YOUR CONCLUSION.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Frits said:

This is completely wrong and a very wrong representation of the Lord Jesus Christ! Your absurd reasoning does not agree at all with what is written in our Bible:

1Co 15:47 KJV 

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

2Co 3:17 KJV 

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

This, my friend, is the grammar. May the rest judge:

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles ... (Eph 4:9–11.)

It says that HE descended to the lower parts of the earth. "HE" is Jesus - the same HE that gave gifts. But Acts 2 says; 

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Ac 2:26–27.

While HE was in Hades His flesh "rested in hope". Why? because the resurrection was immanent. But this hope was conditional on His SOUL not staying in HADES.

It is not rocket science. Scripture says that HE was Jesus and Jesus was His SOUL.

Now, let's hear your understanding.

 

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, Frits said:

Again, completely incorrect! The body of the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross, but His Spirit was at that moment endued with the Power of the Most High, that is, the Lord Jesus Christ took up His supremacy and majesty as God and King again. And as such, as Ruler, He entered Hades to preach His Gospel there and to liberate from that realm of the dead the spirits of the righteous dead people!

1Pe 4:6 KJV  

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Your proffered verse concerns those saints who suffered at the hand of the fleshly. It is written concisely. It would read, if the Holy Spirit was not so economical; 

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are (NOW) dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

In your answer, please tells us why Jesus Christ must preach to men in Hades who have already, in their lifetime, heard the gospel, severed themselves from riotous living, judged themselves and have lived according to the spirit?? Maybe you add how, 1. if these men were dead (as you maintain) dead men have flesh? And 2. dead men "LIVE" (according to the spirit) when they have "given UP their ghost" - Eccl.3:21