This is war?

[Luther]

8 hours ago, George said:

You didn't read the Science.Com article that I posted ... LITERALLY I just quoted it ...

Who are the Jews? For more than a century, historians and linguists have debated whether the Jewish people are a racial group, a cultural and religious entity, or something else. More recently, scientists have been weighing in on the question with genetic data. The latest such study, published today in the American Journal of Human Genetics, shows a genetic connection among all Jews, despite widespread migrations and intermarriage with non-Jews. It also apparently refutes repeated claims that most Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Central Europeans who converted to Judaism 1000 years ago.

When you say, they aren't, etc, you are PURPOSELY IGNORING the FACTS presented to hold to your views.  So, the question is, why are you ignoring the facts that are presented and not addressing them?  

 

Ok. Let's say that God is very concerned with bloodlines in this era of the New Covenant. With much of the world having been  exposed to Hebrew DNA (especially Europe) through intermarrying , who actually belongs to " Israel"? 

It's not based on religion, for many  "jews"are atheist ( besides the fact that judaism is not the religion of the OT)

What percentage of Hebrew DNA does one have to have in order to be included? I don't think it's a ridiculous thing to ask, since everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally? 

 

 

[Luther]

8 hours ago, other one said:

And where did those people in that area come from?   I'm not concerned about their religion, I'm concerned about thier genetic lines.  We know the northern kingdom had gone to foreign gods before they were carried off from Israel long before the 8th century.

Yeah, and the 10 " lost tribes" aren't lost, they mixed in with primarily European stock. Many Europeans will have trace amounts of their DNA naturally.

Now the tribe of Judah and Benjamin is interesting. Many of those two tribes remained in the Southern kingdom up until the time of Christ. Many became Christians, and some were Pharisees. When the Pharisees ( continuing with the rabbis) created the religion of Judaism ( literally in retaliation to the spreading of Christianity), many jews who continued to reject God practiced Judaism. 

I do not believe the scattered, mixed ten tribes were involved with talmudic Judaism because they were gone from that area ( Babylon) for hundreds of years. 

So, genetically, even though the DNA would be so faint, it's probably more likely that the Easter European Turks  (to answer your question where they came from) can have traces of the DNA from the nomadic rabbis in the years following the fall of Jerusalem. 

It's really fascinating as to what a "jew" is. It's like the confusion is on purpose. 

 

[other one]

9 hours ago, Luther said:

It's really fascinating as to what a "jew" is. It's like the confusion is on purpose.

You seem to be total convinced in your stand, and I have posted why I disagree. George has posted other information showing why we see things in a different way. It doesn't seem you are really dealing with the information presented so, I don't see anything positive coming out of the discussion, so I'm dropping out of it.

[Daniel whalen]

Okay

You say"what is a Jew"

Okay

A lot of people have their DNA tested and there is small amount of"Jewish" blood in them and some expert's believe they might be a Jew

Mixed with European stock or not it really doesn't matter

But nobody wants to say"God promised to Abraham that his descends would be as numerous as sand on the shore"

And God can't lie

I am no expert but they might be a Jew...

... take it for it is worth...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Luther]

41 minutes ago, other one said:

You seem to be total convinced in your stand, and I have posted why I disagree. George has posted other information showing why we see things in a different way. It doesn't seem you are really dealing with the information presented so, I don't see anything positive coming out of the discussion, so I'm dropping out of it.

Bye. 

[Luther]

13 minutes ago, Daniel whalen said:

Okay

You say"what is a Jew"

Okay

A lot of people have their DNA tested and there is small amount of"Jewish" blood in them and some expert's believe they might be a Jew

Mixed with European stock or not it really doesn't matter

But nobody wants to say"God promised to Abraham that his descends would be as numerous as sand on the shore"

And God can't lie

I am no expert but they might be a Jew...

... take it for it is worth...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Genesis 17:4-6 KJV

As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

[5] Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

[8] And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

( Compare With):

Galatians 3:7-9 KJV

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

It's not the blood descendants of Abraham that will be as the sand of the sea. It's the people of the nations having the faith of Abraham ( the faith that is of Christ). Christians are the sand of the sea. We are "all nations" that will be blessed. If we are of faith ( Christ), we are then the "children of Abraham", in a spiritual way, of course. 

[Luther]

3 hours ago, other one said:

You seem to be total convinced in your stand, and I have posted why I disagree. George has posted other information showing why we see things in a different way. It doesn't seem you are really dealing with the information presented so, I don't see anything positive coming out of the discussion, so I'm dropping out of it.

I understand why we have our differences, and it has everything to do with Bible hermeneutics. 

I understand God's salvation plan to be "two tales of the same story". Before the earth was formed, God wanted to have a people for Himself to be with Him into eternity. 

His plan is to redeem a great multitude through the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. This work was finished before the foundation of the world  (Hebrews 4:2). 

Redemption was needed, because God knew that we would disobey Him and  fall into sin. He made two agreements for mankind to restore the perfect obedience they once had with Him. 

The first agreement ( covenant) was through the works of the law. He chose a nation of people to represent this endeavor called Israel. They were an example of how mankind on their own could not perfectly obey Him. But in the midst of this " dilemma " he chose Abraham and a select group of others  (not necessarily Hebrews) and blessed them with the faith needed for obedience....the faith of Jesus Christ. 

So from the beginning, there were those who were saved, even in a covenant that needed to be replaced. While mostly all of the nation of Israel died in disobedience, there was a remnant saved by grace.

Then there came the point in God's salvation plan ( which never changed from the foundation of the world) to increase the scope of His chosen ones throughout the world, no longer through a covenant of works, but of grace. This new covenant no longer emphasizes a symbolic group of people to illustrate the perfect obedience that God commands. So rather than qualifying for perfect righteousness through a set of laws and coming from a particular bloodline, those requirements are no longer needed ( and in fact they never were). 

In this new covenant ( of the same salvation plan) all nations now have the hope of eternal life through the faith of Jesus Christ. 

Hebrews 8:10,13 KJV

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

This " house of Israel" is not of the old covenant, but of the new one, which includes people from ALL NATIONS. The language is symbolic now. Just like "ALL ISRAEL" is to include all nations. 

And that's where we part ways theologically. One camp wants to insist everything must relate to the old covenant because we see the word  "Israel" or " Jacob" or whatever language God uses. But we are in a new covenant, and the old covenant has no significance, neither will it have any future significance. 

 

[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Orion]

On 4/10/2025 at 10:38 PM, Luther said:

Israeli Bombs Pound Gaza City’s Shujaiya Neighborhood, Killing at Least 30

Dave DeCamp

 

Israeli strikes pounded Gaza City’s Shujaiya neighborhood on Wednesday, killing at least 30 Palestinians and leaving dozens more missing under the rubble.

 

According to the Palestinian news agency WAFA, the initial strikes targeted a four-story residential building, flattening it and damaging ten nearby homes. At least eight children are among the 30 Palestinians confirmed killed by the bombing.

 

 

A Palestinian man reacts as he holds a child at the site of an Israeli strike on a house in Shujaiya in Gaza City, April 9, 2025. REUTERS/Stringer

Al Jazeera reported that the Israeli strikes left nearly 80 people missing and that attacks were continuing across the neighborhood. “The Israeli jets are carrying out more and more deadly attacks across the central and eastern parts of the district, destroying more homes and attacking people trapped inside these residential buildings,” said Al Jazeera reporter Hani Mahmoud.

 

WAFA reported that five Palestinians were killed by another Israeli strike on Shujaiya, following the one that killed at least 30 people.

 

Mahmoud said rescue workers officially ceased their operations in the area since it was getting too risky for them to work due to the Israeli bombardment. The al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City has also been overwhelmed with casualties following the attacks, as hospitals across Gaza are short on vital supplies due to the total Israeli blockade that’s been imposed since March 2.

 

Gaza’s Health Ministry said Wednesday that at least 60,000 children were “at risk of serious health complications due to malnutrition” due to the Israeli blockade. ” The ministry said the “lack of adequate nutrition and drinking water will compound health challenges, with the continued ban on vaccinations for children, especially polio vaccination.”

 

Israeli strikes also pounded central and southern Gaza on Wednesday as attacks have been relentless since Israel restarted its genocidal war on March 18, which it did with full support from the US. The Health Ministry said in its daily update that at least 1,482 Palestinians have been killed and 3,688 were injured since the full-scale bombing resumed. Over 500 children are among the dead.

.........................................

Usually in a war you have two armed forces fighting each other. All I ever see in Gaza are innocent civilians being murdered, along with their homes being leveled. Have you seen drone footage of Gaza lately? 

To me it appears as if a whole race of people are being annihilated. How are they getting away with this? 

This war began when Hamas committed atrocities on 10/7, and took hundreds hostage to kill and rape and torture while hostages.  

When the allies in World War II killed millions of Germans compared to the hundreds of thousands of allies killed by Germans, were the allies the bad guys just because they killed more of the enemy than the enemy killed of them?

So, too, is Hamas the enemy that started a war that Israel did not want. Death and destruction will continue until the unconditional surrender of Hamas and the return of all hostages.

Pray for them all, in Gaza, the West Bank, and in all of Israel. Amen. 

[other one]

27 minutes ago, Orion said:

This war began when Hamas committed atrocities on 10/7, and took hundreds hostage to kill and rape and torture while hostages.  

They were in the middle of a ceasefire when Hamas violated the agreement and restarted the war that has really been going on pretty much off and on ever since Israel gave Gaza to them.  The people voted to have Hamas be the controlling government of the place, and their main goal has been to drive Israel out of the Middle East.

[Daniel whalen]

10 hours ago, Luther said:

Genesis 17:4-6 KJV

As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

[5] Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

[8] And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

( Compare With):

Galatians 3:7-9 KJV

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

It's not the blood descendants of Abraham that will be as the sand of the sea. It's the people of the nations having the faith of Abraham ( the faith that is of Christ). Christians are the sand of the sea. We are "all nations" that will be blessed. If we are of faith ( Christ), we are then the "children of Abraham", in a spiritual way, of course. 

Thank you for the scripture's

But Palestine gave a decoration of Independents in 1988 

That is at least 37 year's and WW2 last less than 3 1/2 year's and killed 6 million Jews when Nazi Germany was in power during the Holocaust!

Hamas can not been trust and they want to destroy Israel completely and the world

I really support Israel and I would die with out a second thought for America and Israel