If Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), how can we be sure we're not following someone who appears “biblical” but is actually a false teacher?

[farouk]

17 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Yes, Farouk, how many more denominations do we need in this world? They think exactly like you in this. All of them. I just gave you SCRIPTURE which tell us, that traditions were taught, not written down. What were they? 

It does beg the question: specifically unrecorded traditions superseding ones recorded in Scripture: doesn't this eventually strange situations where Scripture can supposedly be set aside?

[farouk]

Put differently, how can the general existence of traditions (referring to specifically Scriptural ones or else some unrecorded ones) be used to justify carte blanche the overruling of Scripture because of church tradition?

[Anne2]

16 minutes ago, farouk said:

It does beg the question: specifically unrecorded traditions superseding ones recorded in Scripture: doesn't this eventually strange situations where Scripture can supposedly be set aside?

For me, it is a matter of scripture....As examples, shadows, and patterns we see in the old covenant. The cultural reality existing in the days of the Apostles as well,,,,followed that pattern...in the power of the holy spirit of course.

But more, and I am just gonna come out and say it as I experienced it.

I do not think people realize "traditions" they are friendly to today, and  those who promote them" as "sacraments" as well. Because it is couched in Judaism.....The prayers in these shuls and synagogues,,,,"Who has sanctified us by his commandments".  There is not a whole lot of difference to keep the sabbath for sanctification, clean and unclean, Passover seders (Rabbinic tradition alone) etc for Sanctification. and sacraments in the Church

When I heard those prayers in the shul I attended for several years, ( I mean I was praying them right along with the rest of the congregation). All of a sudden a light bulb came on....this is a sacrament, and this is Jewish Catholicism. 

But let me mention anything even close to that and booo me. This is the kind of stuff, I am talking about. 

Just a little tolerance to hear one another and consider is all. Some might be accepting things in one context that they are absolutely rejecting in another..

 

 

Edited April 28 by Anne2

[farouk]

Well, re. Judaism, I do think the Epistle to the Hebrews clarifies a lot of doctrine and practice.

[Anne2]

4 minutes ago, farouk said:

Well, re. Judaism, I do think the Epistle to the Hebrews clarifies a lot of doctrine and practice.

Again, Hebrew is about priesthood and the covenant of Levi.....

Mal 2:4  And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 2:8  But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. {stumble at: or, fall in }
Mal 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

The Levites had no potion of inheritance with Israel. But then again neither did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not Moses nor Aaron....

The priesthood is an inheritance. of Levi.

Jos 18:7  But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance: and Gad, and Reuben, and half the tribe of Manasseh, have received their inheritance beyond Jordan on the east, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave them.
 

Ex 40:15  And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting  (aiona for ever) priesthood throughout their generations.

Heb 9:1  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

After the 2nd veil 

Nu 25:13  And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting (Aonia #166 eternal) priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Ah well, not much interest here it seems

[bdavidc]

6 hours ago, Anne2 said:

So there is no authority in the Church than ourselves?

What traditions were passed down from the Apostles we were to keep? What tradtions were by the word passed onto you?

1Co 11:2  Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

2Th 2:15  Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Invocation of the holy spirit in their council?

Acts 15:25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26  Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27  We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. {mouth: Gr. word }
28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
 

The traditions that believers are commanded to hold are the teachings given directly by the apostles, which are preserved for us in the Word of God. In 1 Corinthians 11:2, Paul praised the brethren for keeping the ordinances as he delivered them, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, he instructed them to stand fast and hold the traditions taught by word or by his epistle. These teachings are now contained in the Scriptures, which are complete and sufficient for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17). In Acts 15, the apostles and elders, being led by the Holy Spirit, gave necessary instruction to the early church regarding specific issues, always under the authority of God's revealed truth. Christ is the Head of the Church (Colossians 1:18), and believers are to test all things by the Word of God (Acts 17:11), ensuring that they remain faithful to the teachings once delivered to the saints (Jude 3).

This is off topic. We were discussing how to guard against false teachers by testing everything against Scripture as 2 Corinthians 11:14 warns. Church authority and traditions are not the issue being addressed. If you would like to discuss that please start another thread.

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, bdavidc said:

The traditions that believers are commanded to hold are the teachings given directly by the apostles, which are preserved for us in the Word of God. In 1 Corinthians 11:2, Paul praised the brethren for keeping the ordinances as he delivered them, and in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, he instructed them to stand fast and hold the traditions taught by word or by his epistle. These teachings are now contained in the Scriptures, which are complete and sufficient for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17). In Acts 15, the apostles and elders, being led by the Holy Spirit, gave necessary instruction to the early church regarding specific issues, always under the authority of God's revealed truth. Christ is the Head of the Church (Colossians 1:18), and believers are to test all things by the Word of God (Acts 17:11), ensuring that they remain faithful to the teachings once delivered to the saints (Jude 3).

This is off topic. We were discussing how to guard against false teachers by testing everything against Scripture as 2 Corinthians 11:14 warns. Church authority and traditions are not the issue being addressed. If you would like to discuss that please start another thread.

I was addressing scripture. But sure I will cease.

[JohnD]

1 John 4:1 / 1 Thessalonians 5:21

ACTS 17:11

[Tristen]

On 4/28/2025 at 10:45 AM, bdavidc said:

The Bible makes it clear that we are not only to judge teachings, but also to beware of false teachers themselves. Jesus warned plainly in Matthew 7:15, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." He did not say to listen to their teaching and ignore who they are, but to be on guard against them because of the danger they pose. Paul also warned in Acts 20:29–30, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." False teachers are a threat to the church, and it is biblical to mark and avoid them, as commanded in Romans 16:17, "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

While it is true that only God knows the heart, the Bible never tells us to ignore error because someone might be sincere. Paul said in Galatians 1:8–9 that even if an angel from heaven preached a different gospel, he should be accursed, not tolerated or treated gently. Sincerity does not excuse false doctrine. Scripture teaches that false doctrine is deadly and must be opposed, not treated lightly (2 Peter 2:1–2).

The Bible also commands us to test everything by the Word of God, but testing includes rejecting false teachers when necessary. 1 John 4:1 says, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." Testing is not just about analyzing a message in isolation, but about discerning whether the messenger is truly of God.

Scripture demands humility, but humility does not mean tolerating error. Jesus and the apostles confronted false teachers directly. Biblical love warns and protects the flock from wolves, not excuses them under the pretense of being humble.

In short, it is not biblical to separate the message from the messenger if the messenger is consistently corrupting the Word of God. We are commanded to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and to reject those who bring falsehood, no matter how sincere they seem.

The church should certainly be free to debate and discuss supposed doctrinal "error" (i.e. errant teaching). And the church should certainly "beware" (i.e. be wary) of those who seek to infiltrate the church for selfish, nefarious purposes.

However, we should not be running around like scared chickens dodging pieces of falling sky. Jesus said that He will build His church, "and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).

One Christian disagreeing with another Christian over a particular doctrine (or doctrinal focus) does not necessarily mean that one of the Christians is a "false teacher" - no matter how strongly each Christian feels about the supposed "error" of the other. That is, disagreeing with you over a particular doctrine does not forever invalidate their Christian credentials. Christians are permitted respectful disagreement over non-essential doctrines - without compromise to their "Christian" status.

Points for consideration:

- ‎We should all be afforded the grace to be wrong about some things.
- ‎Is the wrong doctrine all that this supposedly errant minister preaches? My impression from the absurd 'heresy hunter' types is that these suspect ministers only ever preach one or two things. Whereas my experience tells me that most ministers preach on a vast variety of issues - most of which we would all stand in agreement. But the 'heresy hunters' seek to forever disqualify the preachers based on simple disagreements over non-essential doctrines - speaking against the ministry as a whole.
- ‎What is the fruit of the ministry (see Matthew 7:15-20)? Are people being drawn into fellowship with Christ through the ministry? Are they feeding the hungry and ministering to the sick and elderly in the name of Christ? Is the church being encouraged to seek God through personal study of His Word?

- Does the supposed "false teacher" still preach the errant doctrine? I know I once taught things that I now know were wrong. Furthermore, I also once defended a well-known minister who was accused of preaching (current tense) a certain doctrine. Having listened to that minister on-and-off for decades, I had never heard them preach that particular doctrine. I was then informed how easy it was to find the evidence - and was pointed to a 20 second video clip from the early eighties. Seriously???

Apart from spiritual discernment, I wonder how, from limited evidence, anyone can claim to be certain that God is not working His work in other parts of the ministry that we are not privy to - and that the supposed doctrinal "error" is something the Holy Spirit plans to correct in due course? (Whilst also recognizing that maybe we are the one whose doctrine requires correcting).

Therefore, speaking flippantly against potential works of God wreaks of arrogance, self-righteousness, a lack of humility, and a lack of the reverent fear of God.

Trust Jesus administer His church. Otherwise:
Philippians 4:8
... whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

 

[bdavidc]

2 hours ago, Tristen said:

The church should certainly be free to debate and discuss supposed doctrinal "error" (i.e. errant teaching). And the church should certainly "beware" (i.e. be wary) of those who seek to infiltrate the church for selfish, nefarious purposes.

However, we should not be running around like scared chickens dodging pieces of falling sky. Jesus said that He will build His church, "and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).

One Christian disagreeing with another Christian over a particular doctrine (or doctrinal focus) does not necessarily mean that one of the Christians is a "false teacher" - no matter how strongly each Christian feels about the supposed "error" of the other. That is, disagreeing with you over a particular doctrine does not forever invalidate their Christian credentials. Christians are permitted respectful disagreement over non-essential doctrines - without compromise to their "Christian" status.

Points for consideration:

- ‎We should all be afforded the grace to be wrong about some things.
- ‎Is the wrong doctrine all that this supposedly errant minister preaches? My impression from the absurd 'heresy hunter' types is that these suspect ministers only ever preach one or two things. Whereas my experience tells me that most ministers preach on a vast variety of issues - most of which we would all stand in agreement. But the 'heresy hunters' seek to forever disqualify the preachers based on simple disagreements over non-essential doctrines - speaking against the ministry as a whole.
- ‎What is the fruit of the ministry (see Matthew 7:15-20)? Are people being drawn into fellowship with Christ through the ministry? Are they feeding the hungry and ministering to the sick and elderly in the name of Christ? Is the church being encouraged to seek God through personal study of His Word?

- Does the supposed "false teacher" still preach the errant doctrine? I know I once taught things that I now know were wrong. Furthermore, I also once defended a well-known minister who was accused of preaching (current tense) a certain doctrine. Having listened to that minister on-and-off for decades, I had never heard them preach that particular doctrine. I was then informed how easy it was to find the evidence - and was pointed to a 20 second video clip from the early eighties. Seriously???

Apart from spiritual discernment, I wonder how, from limited evidence, anyone can claim to be certain that God is not working His work in other parts of the ministry that we are not privy to - and that the supposed doctrinal "error" is something the Holy Spirit plans to correct in due course? (Whilst also recognizing that maybe we are the one whose doctrine requires correcting).

Therefore, speaking flippantly against potential works of God wreaks of arrogance, self-righteousness, a lack of humility, and a lack of the reverent fear of God.

Trust Jesus administer His church. Otherwise:
Philippians 4:8
... whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

 

The Bible commands believers to test every teaching and teacher by the Word of God, not to sit back and assume Jesus will clean up all error without our obedience. Scripture does not tell us to wait for the Holy Spirit to maybe correct false doctrine “in due course”, it tells us to “contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3) and to “mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them” (Romans 16:17). The issue is not about minor disagreements but about those who teach error concerning essential doctrines such as who God is, what salvation is, or what the gospel truly means. Paul said even “if we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel... let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).

You ask about fruit, Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets… Ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:15-20). But fruit isn’t just about doing good deeds. Many false teachers appear to be doing good, feeding the hungry or quoting Scripture, yet preach lies that lead people to destruction. Matthew 7:22-23 shows people who did many wonderful works in Jesus’ name, but He says, “I never knew you: depart from me.” Why? Because their teaching and life were lawless and not grounded in truth.

The idea that calling out error is “self-righteous” or “arrogant” directly contradicts the example of Jesus, Paul, John, and the prophets, who regularly confronted false teachers by name and in public. Paul publicly rebuked Peter when he was wrong (Galatians 2:11-14), and he warned the church night and day with tears (Acts 20:29-31) because he knew that grace includes warning, and love includes correction. Real love hates what is evil and clings to what is good (Romans 12:9).

God commands us to expose darkness (Ephesians 5:11), not excuse it. Trusting Jesus to build His Church (Matthew 16:18) does not mean we ignore false doctrine, it means we stand firm on His Word while doing what He told us to do. If someone is preaching error, especially about the nature of God or the gospel, it is not flippant or arrogant to warn others, it is obedience to Scripture.