Pre-Trib Rapture, some proofs

[EddieM]

 

PROOFS FOR A PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE

 

1 – Jesus made a promise to the church in Philadelphia – Jesus said, “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth” (Rev. 3:10).  In his book, Jesus and the End Times, Ron Rhodes states, “According to the Greek language…the phrase, ‘hour of trial’ is described in Revelation 4-18. It is this timespan that the church is to be kept from itself.”

 

2 – We are not appointed to wrath – This is a crucial reason the Rapture must occur before the Tribulation. Romans 5:9 says, “We shall be saved from wrath through Him.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10 declares, “And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.” And Revelation 3:10 states, “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” This reference speaks of a worldwide, global judgment. Clearly, the seven-year Tribulation is the wrath of God. For seven years, twenty-one judgments will befall the whole world. By reading Revelation 4-18, it’s clear that things go from bad to worse as the judgments of God literally tear this world apart. Those caught in the middle will suffer “A day of wrath-a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness” (Zeph. 1:15).

 

3 – We are covered by the blood – Few could argue that the Tribulation is a time of pain, wrath, God’s judgment, darkness, and destruction over evil, the Antichrist, and the earth. Because of the cross, the church has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Therefore, those who have been cleansed by confession of their faith in Jesus are not under condemnation and judgment (Rom. 8:1). Therefore, heaven awaits them, not the wrath of God. Those who genuinely walk and live. It is rather odd that the Rev. 19 passage is the most precise picture of the Second Coming of Christ, yet it does not mention a resurrection? Furthermore, the rapture    will be the most significant event since the resurrection of Jesus, where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated. Yet, there isn't any mention of it here. That seems to be an essential part to leave out. The resurrection of the dead isn't mentioned because it doesn't occur at the Second Coming but 7-years earlier at the rapture.

 

4 – Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn’t mention a resurrection – This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the Second Coming; yet again, there is no mention of any resurrection.

 

5 – Two unique pictures are painted – The Old Testament paints two different pictures of the coming Messiah. First, in Isaiah 53:2-10 and Psalm 22:6-8, 11-18, Jesus is the suffering servant. Then in Psalm 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9, 16 He is the reigning King. Looking back at both, one predicted the Messiah's first coming as suffering, dying on the cross for us. The future Second Coming, He comes as the reigning King of Kings. The New Testament also points to two pictures and two different descriptions of Jesus' coming. Under close examination, these two separate events are called the Rapture and the Second Coming.

 

6 – The known day and the unknown day – Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know, and a day we can know. Look at Matthew 25:13, which declares, "For you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming." So, Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 tells us another story; the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4). Ultimately, he will be destroyed by Jesus at His Second Coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

 

9 – Two doors in Heaven – In the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapter 4:1, a door is opened. John the revelator is told, “Come up here.” As John is called to heaven to witness the Tribulation events unfold. This calling to heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up in the Rapture. Then, in Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again. This time the armies of heaven are called out. Similarly, the church comes into play, which had spent the last seven years in heaven. Both doors, at the beginning and end of the book of Revelation, involved Jesus’ return; first, the Rapture, and second, the Second Coming.

 

10 – Revelation 4:1 John is called into Heaven – The words "Come up here" in Revelation 4:1 strike a similar chord with the Rapture of the Church. A voice out of heaven calls the apostle John to "Come up here," "Come up here.” Immediately he appears in heaven, ready to witness the future. This upward calling seems to be a prophetic reference to the Rapture of the Church.

 

Similarly, in Revelation 11:12, the familiar phrase, "Come up here," is used to call back to heaven the two witnesses murdered in the middle of the Tribulation. Therefore, these three words could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word "church" is mentioned 22 times in Revelation 1-3 but is not mentioned again until Revelation 22:17.

 

11 – The 24 Elders in heaven have their crowns – Once John is called into heaven, he notices that the 24 elders have crowns on their heads (Rev. 4:4-10). According to 2 Timothy 4:8 and 1 Peter 5:4, it is clear that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the Rapture. Furthermore, Luke 14:14 indicates that believers will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. Therefore, the elders could not have received their crowns unless the resurrection (Rapture) had occurred.

 

12 – The Holy Ones are already in Heaven – Zechariah 14:5 indicates that the saints are already in heaven. They are “The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses” (Rev. 19:14) at the armies of the end of the Tribulation. Paul speaking to the church in Colossae, told them, “When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory” (Col. 3:4). Dressed in fine linen confirms that these are not angels but the righteous saints. Clearly, in order to come out of heaven, the saints had to first go in, indicating a previous Rapture.

 

[DeighAnn]

53 minutes ago, EddieM said:

1 – Jesus made a promise to the church in Philadelphia – Jesus said, “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth” (Rev. 3:10).  In his book, Jesus and the End Times, Ron Rhodes states, “According to the Greek language…the phrase, ‘hour of trial’ is described in Revelation 4-18. It is this timespan that the church is to be kept from itself.”

How is one 'kept' from deception?  Knowledge.  Kept is guarded and has nothing to do with 'leaving the body', PATIENT ENDURANCE, keep and guard that knowledge, and in the 'hour' of temptation you won't lose your soul by taking the mark of the beast. 

Revelation 4 TAKES PLACE BEFORE CHRIST is found worthy HIMSELF so there is NO WAY the 'church' could be there before Him.  Wishful thinking is all that is.  
 

 

58 minutes ago, EddieM said:

2 – We are not appointed to wrath – This is a crucial reason the Rapture must occur before the Tribulation. Romans 5:9 says, “We shall be saved from wrath through Him.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10 declares, “And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.” And Revelation 3:10 states, “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” This reference speaks of a worldwide, global judgment. Clearly, the seven-year Tribulation is the wrath of God. For seven years, twenty-one judgments will befall the whole world. By reading Revelation 4-18, it’s clear that things go from bad to worse as the judgments of God literally tear this world apart. Those caught in the middle will suffer “A day of wrath-a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness” (Zeph. 1:15).

No, and WRATH doesn't come upon us, it falls upon THEM.  Only way it would fall upon 'us' would be if we had become one of THEM.  It is our FAITH in Christ that 'delivers' us, not a flying away from the cross we are to pick up and carry to be worthy of Him.  Again, KEPT from the hour says NOTHING about 'dead rising' and alive being changed and taken to heaven.  To EVERY MAN death and judgment.  Every CHURCH 'message' ends with TO HIM who overcomes....not to 'an assembly' of persons who don't.  

Clearly the WRATH of GOD are the BOWLS POURED OUT, not the hour of temptation.  And yes, there are going to be MAJOR CHANGES, but GOD isn't going to be mad at those who have remained faithful to Him.  

Those caught in the middle are taking the mark of the beast, and it is upon them the wrath falls.  

 

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

3 – We are covered by the blood – Few could argue that the Tribulation is a time of pain, wrath, God’s judgment, darkness, and destruction over evil, the Antichrist, and the earth. Because of the cross, the church has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Therefore, those who have been cleansed by confession of their faith in Jesus are not under condemnation and judgment (Rom. 8:1). Therefore, heaven awaits them, not the wrath of God. Those who genuinely walk and live. It is rather odd that the Rev. 19 passage is the most precise picture of the Second Coming of Christ, yet it does not mention a resurrection? Furthermore, the rapture    will be the most significant event since the resurrection of Jesus, where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated. Yet, there isn't any mention of it here. That seems to be an essential part to leave out. The resurrection of the dead isn't mentioned because it doesn't occur at the Second Coming but 7-years earlier at the rapture.

That is correct, the blood of the Lamb is our saving grace, so WE DON'T NEED TO FLY AWAY to be saved...it doesn't matter to the Lord...and what about the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled?  and what about a house divided?  Would He divide His OWN HOUSE when He has given us power over all our enemies?  Why give us power at all if it isn't even really necessary?  

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me   Matthew 10:38 

WHY could Christ TAKE THIS FROM US with a pre trib rapture?  That makes no sense.  


Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him 1 Thessalonians 5:10 

Romans 14:8-9 - For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.


But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage Luke 20:35 


32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

What about the 'hour' could be SO much worse that a PRE TRIB FLY AWAY would be necessary?


Why would the 2nd coming need to mention the resurrection as that question had been clearly asked and answered previously.  Why isn't a PRE TRIB fly away MENTIONED ANYWHERE should be a question being asked.  

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

4 – Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn’t mention a resurrection – This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the Second Coming; yet again, there is no mention of any resurrection.

No pre trib rapture either....

 

 

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

5 – Two unique pictures are painted – The Old Testament paints two different pictures of the coming Messiah. First, in Isaiah 53:2-10 and Psalm 22:6-8, 11-18, Jesus is the suffering servant. Then in Psalm 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9, 16 He is the reigning King. Looking back at both, one predicted the Messiah's first coming as suffering, dying on the cross for us. The future Second Coming, He comes as the reigning King of Kings. The New Testament also points to two pictures and two different descriptions of Jesus' coming. Under close examination, these two separate events are called the Rapture and the Second Coming.

Just the TWO, no 'third' mentioned here, no 'pre trib' mentioned anywhere.  And WHAT would He be coming as??? the servant again? or a King before His return as KING AND LORD? 

Does He leave the right hand of God or do we believe what is written

 

1 hour ago, EddieM said:

6 – The known day and the unknown day – Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know, and a day we can know. Look at Matthew 25:13, which declares, "For you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming." So, Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 tells us another story; the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4). This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven-year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4). Ultimately, he will be destroyed by Jesus at His Second Coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

?MEANING?  So, whatever it MEANS to us, is Truth? 

Anyways... Let's talk about the OIL. It is those who DON'T HAVE THE OIL who won't know what 'time' it is.  And why would 'the Jews' know what is written in the book of Revelation? 

And aren't those 42 months given to the Gentiles to trample down?  If so, then the time of the Gentiles have concluded before then, right?  And doesn't the pre trib claim something about the time of the Gentiles?  

 

2 hours ago, EddieM said:

9 – Two doors in Heaven – In the Revelation of Jesus Christ chapter 4:1, a door is opened. John the revelator is told, “Come up here.” As John is called to heaven to witness the Tribulation events unfold. This calling to heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up in the Rapture. Then, in Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again. This time the armies of heaven are called out. Similarly, the church comes into play, which had spent the last seven years in heaven. Both doors, at the beginning and end of the book of Revelation, involved Jesus’ return; first, the Rapture, and second, the Second Coming.

Who says it is prophetic of the rapture?  The church isn't even mentioned.  Christ ISN'T EVEN THERE YET.


And 19 is at the END when the two witnesses have been killed and the Lords Day is about to begin...AFTER the workings of Satan.  

The 'church' has NEVER been taken to heaven in FACT they were just told many might not MAKE IT AT ALL.  Only 2 of them were approved of....

Until you can show a CLEAR departure of 'the church' FROM the earth, GOING TO HEAVEN with DEATH and JUDGMENT, it just isn't going to work. 

THE ONLY way the 'alive and remaining' at Christs return as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS can be 'changed' is because EVERYONE else on earth will have taken the MARK of the beast. 

best get to teaching some truth real soon....


FIRST opening of heaven is for THE LAMB OF GOD found worthy.  SECOND is for HIS RETURN as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS to rule and reign on the throne of DAVID, here on earth.   


 

 

2 hours ago, EddieM said:

11 – The 24 Elders in heaven have their crowns – Once John is called into heaven, he notices that the 24 elders have crowns on their heads (Rev. 4:4-10). According to 2 Timothy 4:8 and 1 Peter 5:4, it is clear that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the Rapture. Furthermore, Luke 14:14 indicates that believers will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. Therefore, the elders could not have received their crowns unless the resurrection (Rapture) had occurred.

And the tabernacle IS A SHADOW of what is in heaven....wouldn't that make the elders here a shadow also?

Thy will be done on earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN....again no 'pre trib' anything but the first death.

 

2 hours ago, EddieM said:

12 – The Holy Ones are already in Heaven – Zechariah 14:5 indicates that the saints are already in heaven. They are “The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses” (Rev. 19:14) at the armies of the end of the Tribulation. Paul speaking to the church in Colossae, told them, “When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory” (Col. 3:4). Dressed in fine linen confirms that these are not angels but the righteous saints. Clearly, in order to come out of heaven, the saints had to first go in, indicating a previous Rapture.

Going to take this one in a follow up post.  

[Alive]

Just a thought: regarding position on eschatology, I think it’s a mistake to couch people in terms of deception.

The Lord has promised protection for His Elect and stated clearly, they will not be deceived…you have to work that into your end time constructs. He is Faithful. 
There are many now and throughout the last 2000 years; positions on end time events and positions are based on exposure to them.

We are redeemed period and there is absolutely nothing any of us can do to earn His favor. This is why we need His Righteousness imputed to us. 
Maranatha.

Refrain from suggesting any brethren are in jeopardy if their end time constructs do not agree with our own.

His first Appearance guarantees His Second.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, EddieM said:

12 – The Holy Ones are already in Heaven – Zechariah 14:5 indicates that the saints are already in heaven. They are “The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses” (Rev. 19:14) at the armies of the end of the Tribulation. Paul speaking to the church in Colossae, told them, “When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory” (Col. 3:4). Dressed in fine linen confirms that these are not angels but the righteous saints. Clearly, in order to come out of heaven, the saints had to first go in, indicating a previous Rapture.

And in John we are told...23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

 

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify Him in Himself, and shall straightway glorify him. 33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


Why can't they come 'NOW'?  THEY STILL HAVE WORK their own work to do.     

 

36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow Me now; but thou shalt follow Me afterwards. 37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. 38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

Let's talk direction

Jesus Christ is about to be crucified and is going to be raised up from the dead and is going to sit at the right hand of the Father in heaven upon His throne, AWAITING the day He returns to the earth to sit upon HIS own throne, the throne of David, to rule and reign for 1000 years.  

THIS is where He sits even unto this day....what do we learn NEXT in John 14?  

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

His going to the 'place of the dead' and being raised up to heaven is yet another reason they COULDN'T GO 'NOW'.  He still had work to do.  BUT He finished His work as the SERVANT, becoming the Saviour, the Lamb of God, and having been found worthy, went to open the book and to sit at the right hand of GOD in heaven, where He now awaits for US TO FOLLOW HIM,  not to await His return to be 'resurrected' from the dead'.  He tasted death for us, so we 'NEVER DIE' but keep living and go to the place of the LIVING GOD who is the God of Abraham, Issac and Israel, all living in heaven...

 

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

If He hadn't of finished the works of that day, we would, most likely, still be going to the place of the dead.

 

Confirmed in 1 Thess
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. 

 

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

Just a thought: regarding position on eschatology, I think it’s a mistake to couch people in terms of deception.

The Lord has promised protection for His Elect and stated clearly, they will not be deceived…you have to work that into your end time constructs. He is Faithful. 
There are many now and throughout the last 2000 years; positions on end time events and positions are based on exposure to them.

We are redeemed period and there is absolutely nothing any of us can do to earn His favor. This is why we need His Righteousness imputed to us. 
Maranatha.

Refrain from suggesting any brethren are in jeopardy if their end time constructs do not agree with our own.

His first Appearance guarantees His Second.

Who is redeemed?  Those believing/abiding.  Not those who aren't.  YES, His work will always remain, He will always be faithful but that doesn't transfer to mean WE will. 


So, I disagree with the conclusion put forth here, as I don't believe it is written anywhere in that manner but is derived from what is, and the 'suggestion' I refrain from what I have found to be so clearly written and is not a conclusion, is just not......right.  

His FIRST appearance doesn't guarantee anything except that HIS WORK WAS COMPLETED PERFECTLY, the New Covenant brought forth and is now being offered but we are NOT to treat it in any way we like/think/conclude but must follow and do it HIS WAY...to remain.

I hope I maybe misunderstanding you here, and if that is the case, I quickly apologize.  PLEASE, give to me GODS WORDS, so that I can see where you are coming from. I will do the same for you.
  

I believe we have to/must abide in Him and what HE DID will never change, but as for US, the ways of the world are able to make us turn back.  I believe all of us can fall into deception, if we don't watch. 


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Whose words are those?  

And what do we learn before we even get to the NT? 

16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.



Hosea 4 
1Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.

5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.

6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

ma'ac  -  To reject, despise, refuse, abhor
 

2 Tim1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. 7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny Him, He also will deny us:

 720 arneomai 
to deny, to disown, to reject, to refuse...the act of refusing to acknowledge or accept with a strong implication of rejection or repudiation, especially in of faith and allegiance.



2 Tim 2:13 If we are faithless He faithful remains; to deny for Himself, not He is able

apisteó is to disbelieve, be unfaithful, doubt, more like to refuse or reject.
"primarily conveys the act of disbelief or lack of faith. It is used in the New Testament to describe a refusal to trust or believe in God, His promises, or His messengers. This term often highlights a spiritual condition of skepticism or doubt, particularly in relation to the gospel message and the person of Jesus Christ"

pistos: Faithful, trustworthy, reliable, believing


Even though there are those who don't believe in Him or refuse or reject Him,  doesn't change WHO HE IS and what HE DOES/offers.



Roman 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.



I believe we should strive to make sure no one ever hears the words 'I never knew you' and the only way to do that is with HIS WORDS and HIS WORDS ALONE.  No conclusions, no doctrines, no theories, no 'what he really means'.... and that is how I read the Bible ... If I can't find GOD SAYING it, I don't want to say it either.   

Again, if I misunderstood, I apologize, if not, I look forward to seeing what verses you put forth for that reply.

[EddieM]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who is redeemed?  Those believing/abiding.  Not those who aren't.  YES, His work will always remain, He will always be faithful but that doesn't transfer to mean WE will. 

It is interesting to me that even all unbelievers are redeemed. Understanding this may help you draw correct conclusions.

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, EddieM said:

It is interesting to me that even all unbelievers are redeemed. Understanding this may help you draw correct conclusions.

Please, share this information 'of all unbelievers' being 'redeemed'.  

[EddieM]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Please, share this information 'of all unbelievers' being 'redeemed'.  

2 Peter 2.1

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who redeemed them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

[Alive]

This will get interesting---please be careful to be faithful to the TOS.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, EddieM said:

2 Peter 2.1

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who redeemed them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

That is a different subject than we were discussing.   
 

I HAD SAID
Who is redeemed?  Those believing/abiding.  Not those who aren't.  YES, His work will always remain, He will always be faithful but that doesn't transfer to mean WE will.

TO WHICH YOU REPLIED
It is interesting to me that even all unbelievers are redeemed. Understanding this may help you draw correct conclusions.

AND YOUR REPLY came forth as if the 'redeemed' would be receiving 'eternal life' faithful or not, as we were SPEAKING TO that subject



IF we had been speaking about Christ becoming the Lord of both the living and the dead whereby the just and unjust dead would eventually rise, then that would have been different.  
 

False Prophets

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;



If it was my misunderstanding, I apologize, and ask you to now explain what you meant by

'It is interesting to me that even all unbelievers are redeemed. Understanding this may help you draw correct conclusions'

I am TRYING to figure out what you mean by  'UNBELIEVERS ARE REDEEMED...help you to draw correct conclusions'.