Book of Job questions

[InChristsLight]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this question I have regarding Job 38:31-32.

I am aware of what the Mazzaroth is, but I am curious what the Hebrew version says in regards to what it says about "Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion."

The names Pleiades and Orion are Greek names for constellations correct? I find it odd Job would quote God using Greek names as the book of Job was written before the Greeks gave these constellations their names wasn't it?

Just curious what the original text describes this as.

Many thanks

[teddyv]

2 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this question I have regarding Job 38:31-32.

I am aware of what the Mazzaroth is, but I am curious what the Hebrew version says in regards to what it says about "Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion."

The names Pleiades and Orion are Greek names for constellations correct? I find it odd Job would quote God using Greek names as the book of Job was written before the Greeks gave these constellations their names wasn't it?

Just curious what the original text describes this as.

Many thanks

There are Hebrew equivalents, but for translation purposes, Pleaides and Orion are more well known to the modern audiences. Orion is Kesil in Hebrew according a quick google search.

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

Just curious what the original text describes this as.

Job 38:31-33  Canst thou bindH7194 the sweet influencesH4575 of Pleiades,H3598 orH176 looseH6605 the bandsH4189 of Orion?H3685  (32)  Canst thou bring forthH3318 MazzarothH4216 in his season?H6256 or canst thou guideH5148 ArcturusH5906 withH5921 his sons?H1121  (33)  KnowestH3045 thou the ordinancesH2708 of heaven?H8064 canst thou setH7760 the dominionH4896 thereof in the earth?H776

H for Hebrew in Strong's Concordance 

H3598
כִּימָה
kı̂ymâh
kee-maw'
From the same as H3558; a cluster of stars, that is, the Pleiades: - Pleiades, seven stars.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

H3685
כְּסִיל
kesı̂yl
kes-eel'
The same as H3684; any notable constellation; specifically Orion (as if a burly one): - constellation, Orion.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

H4216
מַזָּרָה
mazzârâh
maz-zaw-raw'
Apparently from H5144 in the sense of distinction; some noted constellation (only in the plural), perhaps collectively the zodiac: - Mazzoroth. Compare H4208.
Total KJV occurrences: 1

H5906
עָשׁ    עַיִשׁ
‛ayish    ‛âsh
ah'-yish, awsh
From H5789; the constellation of the Great Bear (perhaps from its migration through the heavens): - Arcturus.
Total KJV occurrences: 2

[InChristsLight]

Thanks, that is very interesting!!

[BibleStudent100]

17 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

I find it odd Job would quote God using Greek names as the book of Job was written before the Greeks gave these constellations their names wasn't it?

Thank you for asking an insightful question and the for the solid explanations.  I had never thought of this question and the answer bolsters my faith even more.

[Dennis1209]

18 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this question I have regarding Job 38:31-32.

I am aware of what the Mazzaroth is, but I am curious what the Hebrew version says in regards to what it says about "Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion."

The names Pleiades and Orion are Greek names for constellations correct? I find it odd Job would quote God using Greek names as the book of Job was written before the Greeks gave these constellations their names wasn't it?

Just curious what the original text describes this as.

Many thanks

This is an interesting question that I never noticed before. I have always assumed Job was a very early book by an unknown author. Based on God's questions to Job, I surmise that enormous dinosaurs and ice-age glaciers still lingered around, and Job witnessed them. It seems God asks Job what he sees, not what was.

You are correct, the Greeks named the Pleiades and Orion after their myths, which poses an interesting dilemma. According to sources I checked, it is estimated that the Greek empire came into existence somewhere around 800 B.C.E.. The time of Job's life and the composition of the Book of Job may shed some light on the question as mentioned below:

The exact date of the Book of Job's composition remains uncertain, with scholars proposing various timeframes. While some suggest it could have been written as early as the time of Moses or by Job himself, there is no solid evidence for these claims[1]. Conservative scholars often place its writing around 950 BC, during King Solomon's reign, which was considered the golden age of biblical Wisdom Literature[1]. However, linguistic evidence points to a later date, possibly in the 6th century BC or after[2]. The book's events are believed to have occurred much earlier, possibly around 2000 BC during Abraham's time[1][3]. The earliest known mention of Job in ancient literature appears in the book of Ezekiel, written in the early 6th century BC, indicating that the story was known by then, at least in oral form[3]. Some scholars argue for a post-exilic date (after 538 BC) based on linguistic features and theological concepts[2][3][4]. Despite the range of proposed dates, the book's author remains unknown[1][3].

[1] Ronald F. Youngblood, F. F. Bruce, and R. K. Harrison, Thomas Nelson Publishers, eds., Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, Inc., 1995).
[2] James L. Crenshaw, "Job, Book of," in The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, ed. David Noel Freedman (New York: Doubleday, 1992), 863.
[3] John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016).
[4] Elmer B. Smick, "Job," in The Expositor's Bible Commentary: 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, ed. Frank E. Gaebelein, vol. 4 (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1988), 851.

 

[InChristsLight]

Thanks for the information. I do find the astronomical references interesting. The studying of the sky and heavens in biblical times must have been important. With little technology they must have been admiring Gods creation with very vivid imaginations. I see now why the Pleiades and Orion were scribed to reach the current audience. There is a huge difference between worshiping the heavenly bodies (planets & stars, astrology) and the study and admiration of Gods creation as say astronomy. That must have been a cornerstone to the difference between worship of the false Gods and the one true God YHWH.

[enoob57]

The activity of Job sacrificing for family and other factors suggest the period of time called the patriarchal period the same time Abraham did also the same....

When in history does the story of Job take place? | Verse By Verse Ministry International

Quote

When in history does the story of Job take place?

April 14, 2019

What years was Job on Earth?

While the Bible doesn’t date the time of Job, internal references in the book suggest he lived around the time of the patriarchs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (beginning about 2100 B.C.). 

For example, Job's length of his life (he lived 140 years after his trials ended, 42:16) is similar to that of Terah (205 years), Abraham (175 years), Isaac (180 years), and Jacob (147 years). Also, the writer measured Job's wealth in terms of his livestock, which is how Moses evaluated the wealth of Abraham and Jacob (1:3; 42:12; compared to Gen 12:16; 13:2; 30:43; 32:5). Thirdly, the Sabeans and Chaldeans (1:15, 17) were nomads during the patriarchal period, but not later. Finally, the Hebrew word for "piece of silver [money]" (qesitah; 42:11) is found elsewhere only in connection with Jacob (Gen. 33:19).

 

[missmuffet]

21 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

Hi all,

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on this question I have regarding Job 38:31-32.

I am aware of what the Mazzaroth is, but I am curious what the Hebrew version says in regards to what it says about "Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion."

The names Pleiades and Orion are Greek names for constellations correct? I find it odd Job would quote God using Greek names as the book of Job was written before the Greeks gave these constellations their names wasn't it?

Just curious what the original text describes this as.

Many thanks

This Christian website may have some answers to your question.

https://www.gotquestions.org/astrology-Bible.html

[Dennis1209]

21 hours ago, InChristsLight said:

Thanks for the information. I do find the astronomical references interesting. The studying of the sky and heavens in biblical times must have been important. With little technology they must have been admiring Gods creation with very vivid imaginations. I see now why the Pleiades and Orion were scribed to reach the current audience. There is a huge difference between worshiping the heavenly bodies (planets & stars, astrology) and the study and admiration of Gods creation as say astronomy. That must have been a cornerstone to the difference between worship of the false Gods and the one true God YHWH.

Just thoughts and questions

Some think that the constellations once told the story of creation, the Gospel message, or both, and were perverted by Satan and his minions. It is generally agreed that the myth of demigods and Titans simultaneously surfaced in every primary culture globally, separated by vast distances with no direct contact or trade. These same nations-cultures also retained the global flood story. In addition, many global precision megalithic structures defy human understanding of who and how they were built, and cannot be replicated today. How does that happen?

I believe Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 6:1-4 are literal, not a metaphor, the Nephilim (fallen ones), who were also giants, not the Seth-Canaan view. Extra-biblical texts and pseudepigrapha are not scripture, but if they are believable, they give additional information on how the world became so corrupt.

Jewish belief and tradition held that 200 Watchers descended to the top of Mt. Hermon (associated with Gen. 6:1-4), the exact spot in the wilderness that Jesus chose for His transfiguration. If the pseudodepigraphical Book of I Enoch is to be believed, in exchange for their daughters, one of several things they taught humanity was astrology, not astronomy.

I suspect that at the Tower of Babel, dispersion into nations, they all took that demonic knowledge with them. How else can paragraph one above be explained? Another interesting question is how one obtains a PhD in astrobiology. What is there to study?

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According to the Bible, God created the stars along with the sun and moon to serve specific purposes for Earth and humanity[1][2]. The stars were made to provide light on Earth, particularly at night, and to help mark signs, seasons, days, and years[2]. They also serve to declare God's glory and demonstrate His creative power[1][2]. The Bible emphasizes that stars are not to be worshipped, as was common in ancient Near Eastern cultures, but are subordinate to God and under His control[3]. The creation of stars is described as an effortless act for God, with Genesis adding their creation almost as an afterthought: "He made the stars also"[2]. The Bible often uses stars symbolically, representing vast numbers (as in God's promise to Abraham) or as poetic imagery in battles and praise[1][3]. While the beauty and wonder of stars are acknowledged, the Bible consistently portrays them as part of God's creation, subject to His will and serving His purposes for Earth and its inhabitants[1][2][3].

[1] Leland Ryken et al., Dictionary of Biblical Imagery (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2000), 813.
[2] Stuart Burgess, He Made the Stars Also: What the Bible Says about the Stars (Epsom: Day One Publications, 2001), 15.
[3] J. E. Hartley, “Star,” in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised, ed. Geoffrey W. Bromiley (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988), 611.

The stars have indeed told stories throughout human history, both in scientific and cultural contexts. Astronomically, the H-R diagram reveals the life cycles of stars, showing how their sizes, temperatures, and brightness change over time[1]. In various cultures, stars have been used to create narratives and symbols. Biblical texts mention stars in both literal and metaphorical ways, such as representing angels or significant figures[2]. Ancient civilizations like the Egyptians, Babylonians, and Phoenicians developed extensive astronomical knowledge, often linking celestial bodies to deities[3]. Some scholars suggest that before written scriptures, the naming and grouping of stars into constellations served as a way to preserve religious and cultural narratives[4]. However, it's important to note that many of these stories and interpretations are based on cultural beliefs rather than scientific observations[2][3][5].

[1] “Star,” in Compton’s Encyclopedia (Chicago, IL: Compton’s Encyclopedia, 2015).
[2] James Hastings et al., Dictionary of the Bible (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1909), 876.
[3] John M’Clintock and James Strong, “Star,” in Cyclopædia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (New York: Harper & Brothers, Publishers, 1880), 990.
[4] Ethelbert W. Bullinger, The Companion Bible: Being the Authorized Version of 1611 with the Structures and Notes, Critical, Explanatory and Suggestive and with 198 Appendixes, vol. 2 (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2018), 15.
[5] Thomas E. McComiskey, “Astronomy,” in Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1988), 227.