Christ is Israel

[Luther]

28 minutes ago, In1 said:

I believe in a closed interpretation of the Bible ... that the book interprets itself, an into all truth that you are (inwardly) led into, based on God as our Father.

Yes it does. I believe that's the key. To let yhe Bible have the final say. Sometimes you have to be careful with the concordance, but what an excellent companion to have. Do you use a concordance?

[Anne2]

On 5/23/2025 at 6:50 PM, Luther said:

When you walk into a Christian church you are looking at Abraham and his seed.

Everything leads to Christ. He is the only One worthy of praise, and our focus should be on Him. Not a nation. 

Jesus cursed the fig tree because it bore no fruit.....of repentance. 

What a nice way to put it.

"When you walk into a Christian church you are looking at Abraham and his seed."

"Jesus cursed the fig tree because it bore no fruit.....of repentance. "

To those rulers in authority as Judges...Bribery, False testimony, Hypocrisy. They did as wicked Judges because they had nothing on him.....

Joh 9:39 ¶  And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40  And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41  Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
 

Jo 12:22  If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. {cloke: or, excuse }
23  He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
24  If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
25  But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

A generation of wicked rulers.

The partly blinded people have suffered much due to this generation of judges..
 

Edited May 27 by Anne2

[farouk]

14 hours ago, Anne2 said:

And I also with you. You are one of the last persons I dislike disagreement . But heh it happens.

I dont fully agree with this when it comes to the covenant of circumcision. Two parties are in covenant yes, but one swore an oath, which confirms the covenant. Which scripture tells us a confirmed covenant cannot be disannulled by a later covenant, Nor can anything be added  it, nor anything taken away from it. God swore an oath by himself concerning his promise to Abraham through Isaac in Genesis 22. When he sacrificed Issac (was willing to). That covenant will be done full stop. It is based on God's faithfulness to his oath he swore by himself. Also consider when men are dead, the law has no jurisdiction over them...

This is contrast to the priesthood of Levi, according to Aaron. Which was Changed and the law changed. Because it was without an oath....Hebrews tells us this Christ priesthood will never change.

Heb 7:21  (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) {without … : or, without swearing of an oath }
 

Consider this An oath.....which God will not turn from or change his mind...

Ps 110:4  The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Here is how I am looking at this unilateral covenant.

God spoke things to Abraham. Genesis 12

Ge 12:3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Then later the land covenant. concerning the redemption of the 4th generation of his seed in slavery. 

13  And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14  And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16  But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Abraham will be dead......

The Genesis 17 He promises Isaac, and the seed through him (this is the son chosen for the birthright) Gives him the covenant of circumcision, promises kings from his loins, and kings from his wife Sarah as a mother of people

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 

Then after this HE TESTS ABRAHAM... (His faith is tested) Also consider Isaac is the first generation, which the land covenant seed does not include....

Ge 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. {Behold … : Heb. Behold me }
To offer up Isaac. Why? Because it is through Isaac his seed will be called. Abraham already knew he was going to be dead at the time of the promise to the fourth generation. Now, he is testing his faith in a resurrection to receive what God promised him...Could God have changed his mind if Abraham did not believe him.  I think yes....There would be no foul with God... 

When Abraham did this, then came the oath. 

Ge 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; {shore: Heb. lip }
18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
 

Heb 15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16  For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17  Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

1Chr 16:13  O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
14  He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.

15  Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16  Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17  And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a  law (o2706), and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18  Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;

Ps 105:7  He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth.
8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9  Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10  And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

There is more but I am trying not to make your eyes bleed LOL

Hi @Anne2 Interesting verses here also at Romans 2.25-26:

"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

²⁶ Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?"

[Anne2]

39 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @Anne2 Interesting verses here also at Romans 2.25-26:

"For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

²⁶ Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?"

Good verses there.

We are told of Abraham's circumcision.

Ro 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

It is interesting that Abraham circumcised all his household. Which included...

Ge 15:2  And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

Ge 17:23  And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

For a sign and a seal of what Abraham believed from beginning to end?

Ac 3:25  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Ge 12:3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Ga 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The word of his oath......
Ge 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Kings are anointed ones, like prophets and priests....

Edited May 27 by Anne2

[In1]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Yes it does. I believe that's the key. To let yhe Bible have the final say. Sometimes you have to be careful with the concordance, but what an excellent companion to have. Do you use a concordance?

Strong's, and that's where I draw the line, though context more than often is it's own Concordance; there still remains the Bible wide allegorical context in relationship to his son being revealed in us, as us.

[Luther]

3 hours ago, In1 said:

Strong's, and that's where I draw the line, though context more than often is it's own Concordance; there still remains the Bible wide allegorical context in relationship to his son being revealed in us, as us.

"there still remains the Bible wide allegorical context in relationship to his son being revealed in us, as us."

Absolutely. I would say over 50% of the time I would use the concordance just to simply find where a particular word is used throughout the Bible. I was using the englishman's Greek and Hebrew until the Bible apps came along. Super convenient.

[In1]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

"there still remains the Bible wide allegorical context in relationship to his son being revealed in us, as us."

Absolutely. I would say over 50% of the time I would use the concordance just to simply find where a particular word is used throughout the Bible. I was using the englishman's Greek and Hebrew until the Bible apps came along. Super convenient.

Yeah that's pretty much how I use it ... I remember when I got my first computor given to me with the PC study Bible on it, when computors were still DOS ... could turn an 8 hour study into 15 mintues! Before when I did a word study, I'd write every scripture out on paper, so I could have it all out in front of me ... spent 15 years doing it that way ... can't tell you how many times I rewrote the bible on paper ... currently I use the program E Sword ...

[farouk]

14 hours ago, In1 said:

Yeah that's pretty much how I use it ... I remember when I got my first computor given to me with the PC study Bible on it, when computors were still DOS ... could turn an 8 hour study into 15 mintues! Before when I did a word study, I'd write every scripture out on paper, so I could have it all out in front of me ... spent 15 years doing it that way ... can't tell you how many times I rewrote the bible on paper ... currently I use the program E Sword ...

There is also merit in spending time writing out Scriptures............

[farouk]

21 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Good verses there.

We are told of Abraham's circumcision.

Ro 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

It is interesting that Abraham circumcised all his household. Which included...

Ge 15:2  And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

Ge 17:23  And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham’s house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.

For a sign and a seal of what Abraham believed from beginning to end?

Ac 3:25  Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Ge 12:3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Ga 3:8  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The word of his oath......
Ge 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Ge 17:6  And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Kings are anointed ones, like prophets and priests....

@Anne2 So interesting to see the idea of blessing to the world coming through Israel.

I don't see the church specifically in the Old Testament, though...

[In1]

7 minutes ago, farouk said:

There is also merit in spending time writing out Scriptures............

Oh yeah ... I have the KJV memorized!