BUSTED - 2 false schemes of interpreting the Apocalypse

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your response, and you are indeed correct- that, for me, the papacy is indeed the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and the “evil one” mentioned in chapter 11. 
 

As you know, there are a few very different interpretations in the community on just who is this little horn. But I initially wanted to ensure that a discussion on him was not the same discussion one could have on the “anti-Christ” since that term is not referring to an individual but to the spirit of anyone that preaches a different gospel than Jesus. And you are again correct in that beginning in Daniel, this first mention of the little horn will be called a few different labels, including in Revelation, but the term “anti-Christ” is not one of them. 
 

I am also sure you understand that that this kind of dialogue about the “little horn@ and his identity could go on for years with each side offering their various quotes from Scripture, and that will not and has not ever closed the gap between the few major interpretations for this evil one. 
 

So, without going through a back and forth repeating of our conclusions with our own scriptural support, what if we were to discuss FROM THE BEGINNING or the first mention of this person and walk our way through the scriptures to see how and why we have chosen different persons?

If you have an interest in this kind of thing, I would like to submit that it is in Daniel where we find the first mention of this little horn. 
 
So we would not be discussing Matthew or Revelation or Ireneous- initially, it would be focused on Daniel which not only introduces us to the little horn but gives us so much more information, including his arrival and literally how he came to be. 
 

But it will not be like anything you have read to date… it requires one to view Daniel through God’s plan of salvation and not through any actors or events in our secular world. Certainly the papacy is found in our secular world, but it was his appropriation of God’s church that separates him from a purely secular event.

And it doesn’t start in chapter 7 with the mention of the “little horn,” it stars in chapter 2 - that is the beginning of when things are revealed to take place that will be made clear or clearer in chapter 7, 8, etc. 

 

 

 

I have no interest in discussing reformed eschatology, I'm very familiar with the position and it's wrong IMHO

You will closely note you gave complete disregard in answering my questions seen below why?

1.) Do you believe Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD was fulfilled in 70AD?

2.) Do you believe Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation was fulfilled in 70AD?

Edited Tuesday at 06:52 AM by truth7t7

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

I have no interest in discussing reformed eschatology, I'm very familiar with the position and it's wrong IMHO

You will closely note you gave complete disregard in answering my questions seen below why?

1.) Do you believe Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD was fulfilled in 70AD?

2.) Do you believe Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation was fulfilled in 70AD?

Very well. I don’t recall you answering my 7 questions… but that is fine. 
 

Of course the AOD was not connected to 70 AD, but one must first understand the definition of what the AOD is… and I have no interest in reformed theology only what Scripture tells us. 
 
And Daniel is the beginning of all of this… 

 

 

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Very well. I don’t recall you answering my 7 questions… but that is fine. 
 

Of course the AOD was not connected to 70 AD, but one must first understand the definition of what the AOD is… and I have no interest in reformed theology only what Scripture tells us. 
 
And Daniel is the beginning of all of this… 

Do you believe Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation was fulfilled in 70AD?

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Do you believe Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation was fulfilled in 70AD?

I have asked if you would be willing to discuss Daniel in detail about that speaks of God’s most important prophecies. It would allow one to clearly see how God has meticulously planned His plan of restoration and salvation, not only for the Jews coming out of Babylon, but all mankind coming out of spiritual Babylon. 
 

He gives us not only a very powerful summary  (His “ Dream Sequence”) of that plan in chapter 2, but also its details (also in a summary fashion) in His “Interpretation Sequence” in 2:40-45). 
 

Then, He provides deeper views and specific prophecies that identify and unpack His plan of salvation revealed in chapter 2. He does this not in a single set of symbols, but multiple sets of symbols each providing a different view of the same plan as it travels through time. 
 
God reveals very detailed actors and events in Daniel that identify:

1) His plan of salvation from 606 BC to His return,

2) Exactly how, why and when His people will be brought back to Jerusalem,

3) Exactly how, when and why He will begin and end His ministry on the earth,

4) Daniel will reveal:

      a) His exact arrival, 

      b) His 3.5 year ministry,

      c) His death,

      d) The rejection by His people,

      e) The AOD,

      f) The meaning of time, times and 1/2 time,

      g) The identity of the little horn including all that he will do that warrants God”s naming him as such. 

     h) The time of his coming and how he came to be,

     I) The identity of the 10 toes, the 10 horns and the 10 kings,

     j) The identity of the 3 horns plucked up and why and when,

     k) The most important prophecy found in all Scripture- the 70 weeks of years prophecy, 

     l) The 21 days in chapter 10,

     m) A complete unpacking of chapter 11 which covers the time after the cross to the end of time,

     n) The understanding of the 1290 and 1335 days prophecy. 
 

ALL of these is meticulously detailed in Daniel and ALL of these events are interwoven and inseparable from one another to form such a beautiful and horrific picture of His plan of salvation. 
 

Daniel is likened to an extremely difficult 1000 piece puzzle that fits together only one way - but every piece needs and fits with the others. 
 

And as with any such puzzle, one should begin by establishing the 4 ends of the puzzle. That is, the borders and boundaries where the pieces will be placed in. Without these boundaries, these restrictions and clear guidelines it would be impossible to complete the picture. God has given us such a clear set of those 4 corners to ensure we do not place any piece outside of them and it ensures we place them within their proper timeline. 
 

Despite these very generous borders and boundaries, today’s accepted interpretations, including yours have yet to complete most of the puzzle. Instead, they look for puzzle pieces from other puzzles like Matthew, Revelation, etc. that seem to fit within this specific puzzle called Daniel.   
 

But those puzzle pieces belong in their own puzzle and they indeed will speak to the prophecies in Daniel, but they complement Daniel. And if one does not finish the Daniel puzzle using ALL of its given pieces, one cannot possibly see the true picture on the outside of the box and by trying to fill the many, many empty spaces in the Daniel puzzle with pieces belonging to other puzzles, they will never see the picture God has given u. 
 

So, I had offered to sit with you and anyone else in this forum to work to place these puzzle pieces together (so we can all agree or disagree on their placement) and complete this most difficult and unbelievable puzzle. &nbsp
 

The reason I mention all of this is because you would feel comfortable in selecting one maybe two verses from Matthew or another NT book as a means to determine the prophecies in Daniel- like the AOD or the identification of the little horn. 
 

You will never understand how deep and meticulously and complete God has revealed His plan of salvation in Daniel. 
 

You should not find it acceptable to try and understand His most difficult and unbelievable 1000 piece puzzle unless you are willing to spend the time and effort in placing each of those 1000 pieces together. No external pieces found in Matthew or Revelation belong in the Daniel puzzle. And only when you complete the Daniel puzzle will you see how those other pieces in the Matthew or Revelation puzzle fits within their own puzzle picture. 
 
So no, I have no interest in giving you an interpretation on a specific verse in Matthew or Revelation or any other verse in Scripture, you cannot put together a true puzzle from verses you have selected and interpreted in a stand alone manner. 
 

If you want to understand the little horn, the AOD, the many, many other prophecies that God gave us, then you are going to have to begin with Daniel and FINISH THE DANIEL PUZZLE. You cannot pick up a piece of a puzzle in Matthew and conclude that the missing pieces in Daniel that you have yet to place must mean this or that. 
 

But you have clearly developed your interpretations doing just that. And you will not return to the unfinished Daniel puzzle to complete it… you are satisfied with a very partially completed Daniel puzzle and a cherry picking of some other verses in the NT and draw your own interpretations, AND, are more than willing to go on the offensive to anyone that differs from your beliefs or views. 
 

So, again, I will pass on this meaningless litmus test of yours where one must answer correctly (according to your interpretation) one or two prophecies to determine if they should be immediately thrown into a “reformed theology” basket or some other named basket that you have created for all those not agreeing with you. 
 

Have a great day and I don’t expect we will need to continue… best wishes though! 

 

 

 

 

[Orion]

The end of days antichrist must, by biblical definition, be someone that rejects that Yeshua has come in the flesh.  I don't know of any Roman pope that has taken that position. I know the Roman Catholic Church does not take that position.

Accordingly, unless the RCC changes its catechism and starts  teaching that Yeshua did not come in flesh, end of days antichrist must come from some other sect, like the sect of the saduccees perhaps. 

[Charlie744]

36 minutes ago, Orion said:

The end of days antichrist must, by biblical definition, be someone that rejects that Yeshua has come in the flesh.  I don't know of any Roman pope that has taken that position. I know the Roman Catholic Church does not take that position.

Accordingly, unless the RCC changes its catechism and starts  teaching that Yeshua did not come in flesh, end of days antichrist must come from some other sect, like the sect of the saduccees perhaps. 

If I may respond to your comment, I am not sure I understand it. 
 

First, I don’t see anything in Scripture that tells us a literal “anti-Christ” individual will come on the scene. There are only 4 times in the NT where this term is found and everyone of those speaks to the “spirit” of anti-Christ” - someone speaking a different gospel than what Jesus preached. 
 

Now, if you want to discuss a very real evil one that will come on the earth and preach that “different gospel, speak against God, etc., that real person / system is indeed revealed to us in Daniel by God. 
 

That very noticeable one is identified as the “little horn.” And I think it is easily seen just how much “ink” God has given us that reveals his character, his timing, his actions and decisions, his quest for power and certainty even worship. 
 

I think most folks are awaiting some supernatural, menacing boogeyman type of individual who will come with such power and hate, etc. But that is not what is written in Daniel. 
 

God clearly told us who this person / system will be, how he came to be, why he does what he does, and that “he must continue UNTIL the end of time- when Jesus returns. 
 

You say the RCC or the papacy does not match these nasty kinds of things this evil one will do… I cannot imagine anyone else meeting each and every one of the identifiers in Daniel more than the papacy. 
 

But it is how we look at things! From God’s point of view, He is telling us what this person will do AGAINST HIM and HIS CHUCH ( HIS PEOPLE). 
 
So from God’s point of view what would this evil look like?

1) Would this person / system claim divinity like God where God clearly says that there is only One God to worship and obey?

2) Would this person / system claim to have the authority to forgive sin- which only God can do?

3) Would  this person / system claim that salvation only comes through “their” church? 

4) Would this person / system design sacraments not spoken of by God that must be followed to be saved?

5) Would that person / system think he has the right to change God’s laws?

6) Would this person / system rewrite and / or reinterpret God’s 10 commandments - even removing the second that deals with idols?

7) Would this person / system murder and torture over 50 million people during the course of their reign for those refusing to join or obey their Catholic Church? Did Jesus ever resort to these horrible tactics to get people to follow Him? 
 

8) Have they established their own separate set of rituals and practices that align with many pagan practices?

9) Have they established their own worshipping of many, many others instead of worshipping the One true God ONLY? 

10) Have they indeed preached a very different gospel- their own Catechism is blasphemous?

11) Have they indeed claimed that “tradition” is equal to or greater than the Word of God?

This list could literally go on for days… 

So, the question to ask is if we were to put down on paper a list of things that would clearly identify one who would preach a very different gospel- one that has corrupted Gods Word and His commandments, has even claimed to be God on earth and equal to God.. and on and on… would you then agree that this person we would be talking about or trying to identify be the papacy? 
 

What could any other person do that would prove to be a greater evil one against God and His teachings? Who could do more than what they have already done?

If you’re looking for some Hollywood looking monster with supernatural power to arrive and destroy, you will not find him. He is the one who will turn billions of people from worshipping Jesus in the manner He desires. We are not to worship and obey this little horn  - only God. 
 

He has been with us telling us, forcing us and murdering millions so we follow him and join his church… what can anyone do that is more harmful to our God? 
 

 

 

 

 

[Orion]

34 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

First, I don’t see anything in Scripture that tells us a literal “anti-Christ” individual will come on the scene.

John said 2,000 years ago that we are in the last days, and that there are many antichrists already among us. (1 John 2:18). 

John identifies the antichrists as "they" and "he", and as "liars" and "deeivers", which clearly indicates that the antichrists John is referring to are men.  (See, 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John :7).

The "spirit of antichrist" is that spirit which guides these men whom John refers to as antichrists.

If antichrists were among us 2,000 years ago, Lord knows that the number or antichrists in the world has increased since. All one has to do is look at the nations persecuting and butchering Christians today to know that antichrists and the spirit of antichrist is a dominant element in Satan's economy. 

From Satan's economy will come an antichrist from among the population of antichrists, that will come to power and convince all the people of every nation not born again in Christ that he is the Christ. 

53 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You say the RCC or the papacy does not match these nasty kinds of things this evil one will do… I cannot imagine anyone else meeting each and every one of the identifiers in Daniel more than the papacy. 

All one need do is recognize from where the antichrist will come, and it is mystery Babylon. 

Mystery Babylon is that great city that sits on seven hills from which antichristianity will permeate, and from where the antichrist beast will rise.  It is that city where is found the blood of the prophets and the blood of saints. It is a place where deceivers deny Yeshua and confess that Yeshua is not the Messiah and He did not come in the flesh. The RCC does not meet these conditions. But Jerusalem does. 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Orion said:

John said 2,000 years ago that we are in the last days, and that there are many antichrists already among us. (1 John 2:18). 

John identifies the antichrists as "they" and "he", and as "liars" and "deeivers", which clearly indicates that the antichrists John is referring to are men.  (See, 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, and 2 John :7).

The "spirit of antichrist" is that spirit which guides these men whom John refers to as antichrists.

If antichrists were among us 2,000 years ago, Lord knows that the number or antichrists in the world has increased since. All one has to do is look at the nations persecuting and butchering Christians today to know that antichrists and the spirit of antichrist is a dominant element in Satan's economy. 

From Satan's economy will come an antichrist from among the population of antichrists, that will come to power and convince all the people of every nation not born again in Christ that he is the Christ. 

All one need do is recognize from where the antichrist will come, and it is mystery Babylon. 

Mystery Babylon is that great city that sits on seven hills from which antichristianity will permeate, and from where the antichrist beast will rise.  It is that city where is found the blood of the prophets and the blood of saints. It is a place where deceivers deny Yeshua and confess that Yeshua is not the Messiah and He did not come in the flesh. The RCC does not meet these conditions. But Jerusalem does. 

Well, I agree with some of what you mentioned- that there will, unfortunately, be more than millions of people since the time of Christ that would not follow low His teachings and His Testimony or His commandments, but that is exact because they have an “anti-Christ” spirit within them - they simply are not going to obey Him or worship Him .. and those people began to refuse to accept Jesus at the time of the cross until today. 
 

But none on them are specifically called out and identified by God as the “little horn.” God has gone to great lengths to speak of him in Daniel— you just came miss him - that is, unless you want to!!!!

Yet you still claim that an individual to be identified as “The anti-Christ” must come at the end of days out of Babylon.

Where do you find this? Do you not see him in Daniel?  Instead of understanding the many terms God has given us in Daniel to identify him, you mention a phrase from Revelation that is speaking symbolically about this evil one. He does not come out of physical Babylon, but read Daniel, he comes out of the 4th beast kingdom just after the 10 horns are found outside the beast. 
 

Further, you have seemingly ignored all of the comments I made about the little horn and how they speak of the literal actions the papacy has indeed committed, and still do over the past 1500 years . 
 

Is there any person / system on this earth that has done more against the teachings of Jesus, against the Church He established, and against those people who attempted to follow Him over these same 1500 years? The answer is of course NO! 
 

The Jews rejected their Messiah but there never was anyone in their history that would dare to claim to be God or equal to God or had the ability to forgive sin. If we just stopped after those few comments, do you think the little horn would fit those beliefs? Would it really be necessary to list out all of the hundreds of practices, beliefs, rituals, murders, indulgences, saint worshipping, so on, or do you think that Jesus would find those few things an abomination? Everything they do and believe is against the teachings and obedience of Jesus… what more are you looking for or expecting from the little horn? 

 

[Keras]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I had offered to sit with you and anyone else in this forum to work to place these puzzle pieces together (so we can all agree or disagree on their placement) and complete this most difficult and unbelievable puzzle

Here is my placement of the Prophetic pieces in thee Book of Daniel"

The Prophesies of Daniel

Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

        to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding.  Proverbs 8:12-29

Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.

 

The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

         [This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]

 

The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

Daniel 2:38 You king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of Judah]

 

The Media/Persian Kingdom  [King Cyrus]

Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.

 

The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom –. [Alexander the Great]

Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.

 

The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]

Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.] 

The Fourth Kingdom: A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [the Anti Christ]

Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise  and defeat three of the first leaders.

Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning.  [a clever and charismatic man]

Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple]  He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises.  His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end.  Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21

 

The Kingdom of Jesus –                                            2 Samuel 22

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance  of the whole world is given to the holy people of God.   Revelation 20:6

Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

      But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand.  Daniel 8:22

Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 day                              Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some  verses condensed.   

                                                                  

  THE PAST AGES: the first 5 seals were opened, the 4 horsemen released and persecution started, from the murder of Abel until the Return.   Zechariah 1:10, Matthew 23:35

THE PRESENT DAY: Wars, rumours of wars, natural disasters, economic problems, food shortages, overpopulation, false teaching, etc, etc.  Matthew 24:4-8, 2 Timothy 3:1-4        This is the last year of the exile of the Northern ten tribes of Israel.

 

The great and terrible day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, a CME sunstrike.    Isaiah 30:26. It is the Sixth seal.  Worldwide devastation and the Middle East is completely cleared, Psalm 83, a small Jewish remnant survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:3, 6:13,    Many will die elsewhere, such as America: Isaiah 17:4-10, but most will survive and eventually re establish the infrastructure. Isaiah 2:12-21, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10  

      The Seventh seal is a 15 year time gap until 2027/28, the commencement of the Trib.

The Lord’s people, righteous Israel, gather in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:4 They live in peace and security and 144,000 missionaries are selected from them, to go out to all peoples and preach the coming Kingdom of Jesus.  Revelation 7 & 14, Isaiah 66:19

A One World Government is formed, led by ten Presidents. Before long, three will be taken over and the other seven will confer their power onto another strong leader. Daniel 7:24-25, Revelation 13:1-8

A Northern confederation, led by a person referred to as Gog, will be motivated to attack Beulah – an unprotected land, of great wealth. They will be totally wiped out and it takes seven years to bury them and clean the land. Ezekiel 38 & 39, Joel 2:20

The strong leader of the World Government, will make a seven year treaty with Beulah. This marks the commencement of the seventieth ‘week’ [seven years] of Daniel. There is a 3½ year period of calm and peace in the world. Daniel 9:27

The world dictator comes to Jerusalem in force and declares himself to be god in the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, the trumpet and bowl judgements. The ‘Woman’- righteous Israel, are taken to Bozrah [New Zealand] for 1260 days. Zechariah 14:2, Revelation 12:14

The Glorious Return of Jesus. The battle of Armageddon. The regathering of Israel and all those who have kept faithful. The 1000 year Millennium reign.

                                                                           |The seven years of Daniel |

The Treaty signed, peace for 3½ years.             |   1260 days  | 

The Great Tribulation, two witnesses, Woman protected.       |1260 days   |

The festival of Trumpets – Rosh Hashanah, the Return of Jesus                 |                 The battle of Armageddon.                                                                       |

The festival of Atonement – Yom Kippur, His people forgiven – five days         |

The Marriage supper of the Lamb - 1290 days                        |  1260 + 30          |

The festival of Lights- Hanukkah – 1335 days                        |  1260 + 75             |

The Millennium reign of Jesus.                                                                     |   1000 years |

The final attack against the holy city and the armies are instantly cremated. Satan is cast into the lake of fire.  Revelation 16:13-16, Rev 19:17-21                                     

The Great White Throne judgement, a New Heaven and a New Earth.  Daniel 7:9-10,    Revelation chapter 21                                   Ref: logostelos.info

[Orion]

35 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

The Jews rejected their Messiah

Only those Jews that are blind rejected and continue to reject Messiah Yeshua. The faithful remnant of Israel accepted Messiah Yeshua as the Son of God and received Him as Savior, and the faithful remnant continue to do so. 

 

39 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Yet you still claim that an individual to be identified as “The anti-Christ” must come at the end of days out of Babylon.

Where do you find this?

I believe the little horn in Daniel 7 is the beast in Revelation 13 and 17, and that the Daniel 7 prophecy has a dual implication, the first occuring when Antichus IV reigned and persecuted the Jews, destroyed and desecrated the Temple, and was himself later destroyed.  The second occurring in the end of days according to John's prophecy in Revelation. 

The commonalities of this dual prophecy are striking: the little horn is called a beast, it persecutes the saints, it is given 3½ years to reign, it desecrated the temple and causes an abomination of desolation, and it is destroyed by the Lord.  

53 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

He does not come out of physical Babylon, but read Daniel, he comes out of the 4th beast kingdom just after the 10 horns are found outside the beast. 

When the Jews who handed Jesus over to Pilate threatened Pilate after Pilate tried to release Yeshua, the Jews said, "We have no king but Caesar."  The Jews then continued to be complicit with Rome in the persecution of Messiah Yeshua. The complicity between Jews and Rome in crucifying Messiah Yeshua was steadfast.  The glaring difference between the Jews and Rome today is that Jews still reject Messiah Yeshua and continue to persecute the body of Christ, and Rome/Vatican has faith in Messiah Yeshua and promotes the body of Christ. 

 

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Is there any person / system on this earth that has done more against the teachings of Jesus, against the Church He established, and against those people who attempted to follow Him over these same 1500 years?

Yes.  It's called the  antichrist system, which you find in every world religion, such as:  Judaism, talmudic Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, humanism, Darwinism, atheism, agnosticism, et alia.

The Roman Catholic church is founded on the Christian faith. Though it gets some things wrong, so does every single denominational and nondenominational congregation on earth. But they (RCC) preach and teach faith in Messiah Yeshua, crucified died buried and resurrected for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of souls.   

The RCC might be heterodox in some teachings, but heterodox is not heresy, and if not heresy then not antichrist, and if not antichrist then Christian. 

To be clear: there are people born in Christ in every denomination under the sun, including in the RCC.  And to be just as clear, not all who say they are born again in Christ are in fact born again in Christ, and that also includes every denomination under the sun, including baptists, nondenominational evangelicals, and the RCC. 

Peace