THE MONUMENTAL ERROR OF ELLEN GOULD HARMON WHITE

[Catsmeow]

Word: I have it out in the car...I believe it's called, "Object Lessons of Christ" EG White, copywrite *(1940's...can't recall exactly...I'd have to go get it...)

OA: I don't follow all the Ten Commandments...I have a lovely wooden cross hand-carved by an Indonesian; I have lovely paintings showing biblical scenes, including one painting that shows Jesus talking to the rich, young ruler...and many others...I love art and since I don't "worship" art but merely enjoy it, I don't consider it worship of idols..

This is where I think people get so legalistic...the Pharisees took it to the extreme and people haven't changed. Their nature remains...back then it was right to take the Sabbath to rest but Jesus used it for good. Since he didn't stick to the letter of the Law, he was regarded a heretic among the Pharisees.

Likewise, I believe I see a parallel today also...When I hear people argue that you can't have religious art or paintings or crosses or whatever.

Now if I were to put my faith in such things, that'd be another story...but I figure if people can hang up pics of their families, I can display a cross or pics of my "Family"....the Lord Jesus.

So, I don't get too caught up in the legalism. The "giving" part I believe is what God wants people to do to support the Kingdom; resting on Sabbath or Sunday, whichever, is good because we really need to take time out to focus on Him exclusively...but I don't think it matters one wit whether it's Saturday or Sunday. JMO....

[Catsmeow]

I do think Legalism is an issue because we tend to go too far one way or the other...we become either too liberal or too rigid...and both can break your back...

I say over and over...balance, balance, balance..

BTW, as far as tithing...I do it because I sense that's what God wants me to do...but honestly, I believe the HS has to speak to each person's heart and lead them individually.

[BlindSeeker]

Remember, there is an infinite gulf between legalism and legality.

• Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
  
  
  
  • Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    
    

Ho 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

[Guest yod]

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[Catsmeow]

Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Amen! Behavior motivated by a sincere heart rather than mere external compliance.

[wordsower]

I would only like to point out that Jesus DID stick to the letter of the Law....but only as the Law is properly interpreted. This is what He meant when (properly interpreted) said, "I have NOT come to end the law but to show it's full meaning"

The Law is holy, righteous, and good. There is absolutely nothing wrong with obeying any part of it...but that has never and will never gain salvation for your soul.

:::climbs off soapbox:::::

Thanks for climbing off of the soapbox 'cuz I need up there...........

First, Jesus didn't say 'to show it's full meaning' He said He came to fulfill the law and that He did.

Second: John 5 tells the story of the paralytic man who was healed on the Sabbath. verse 8: Jesus said to him, "Rise, take up your bed and walk" and immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath.

Luke 14: Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?" But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go.

Now, all my life I've been taught that Jesus did keep the Sabbath so my first thought is just that Jesus is trying to show the Pharisees that they have forgotten the love while being overly concerned with the letter of the law. BUT, looking at Jeremiah 17:21 "Thus says the Lord: "Take no heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

That seems pretty clear that the Lord commanded them not to carry anything on the Sabbath, so why would Jesus ask the man to take up his bed when that was clearly a sin according to the law? There's that story in the Old Testament of the man being stoned to death, by the instruction of God, for picking up kindling on the Sabbath. (Numbers 15:32-36) Back to the story in John...before Jesus healed the man, He asked "Do you want to be made well?" ok, later on in verse 16: "For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered and said to them, My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." Therefore, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only BROKE (it says broke!) the Sabbath but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

My second thought is that Jesus is intentionally doing these things on the Sabbath to make a point. So what point would that be?

Sabbath was not the only Jewish law Jesus apparently broke. He healed leapers and raised dead people, which were forbidden in the laws of ritual cleanliness.

Jesus also touched dead people and unclean people without going through the manadatory ceremonial cleansing before associating with other people.

This was all done for the purpose of demonstrating that he was the Messiah

[Catsmeow]

Some excellent points...and I agree.

We forget how Jesus was despised by His "contemporaries" because He didn't follow protocol...but Jesus was focused on the "heart" of the Law...hence, healing on the Sabbath was honoring to God.

It's so easy to loose perspective. We end up seeing people either too far one way or the other...they either become in bondage to following the letter of the Law and miss it's sole intent or they throw care to the wind and anything goes...

Thank the Lord we have His Holy Spirit to guide us on the journey ...

[BlindSeeker]

. . .  Basically, the point is that He was superior because He IS the Sabbath rest. . . .

WordSower,

I found myself agreeing with you up to this point, which is the point you and I always come to.

You keep insisting that the point was Jesus was the "Sabbath rest" when really the point was He was God. Therefore nothing could touch Him or defile Him. As God He alone is the Giver of rest.

Matthew 11:28 - Come unto Me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because He is Lord of heaven and earth.

Also . . . why do people keep referring to the Law as the "Jewish Law?" Did they originate it? Did not the Law exist long before ever a Jew was?

[Catsmeow]

Blindseeker: I know we've talked about this and respect each other's views...Some prefer to worship and observe the Sabbath, while others do likewise on Sundays. I'm a Sunday person...

I think most people recognize that whether a person reads an NIV or KJV or whether a person worships on Saturday or Sunday isn't going to make any difference in terms of one's eternal salvation...

I am more concerned that when I am attending services that my mind stays focused on the Lord...my biggest problem never concerns which day of the week I worship but where my mind and heart is when I am worshipping.

I remember in Isaiah the Lord speaks through the prophet and says that people come near Him with their mouthes and honor Him with their lips but their hearts are far away from Him.

Sometimes I think we all might miss the big picture...and honestly, I don't think from God's point of view, it's the day of the week ...but rather the motive of the heart He's really looking at. But that's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[BlindSeeker]

Blindseeker: I know we've talked about this and respect each other's views...Some prefer to worship and observe the Sabbath, while others do likewise on Sundays. I'm a Sunday person...

I think most people recognize that whether a person reads an NIV or KJV or whether a person worships on Saturday or Sunday isn't going to make any difference in terms of one's eternal salvation...

I am more concerned that when I am attending services that my mind stays focused on the Lord...my biggest problem never concerns which day of the week I worship but where my mind and heart is when I am worshipping.

I remember in Isaiah the Lord speaks through the prophet and says that people come near Him with their mouthes and honor Him with their lips but their hearts are far away from Him.

Sometimes I think we all might miss the big picture...and honestly, I don't think from God's point of view, it's the day of the week ...but rather the motive of the heart He's really looking at. But that's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

Catsmeow, my precious and much loved Sister in the Lord,

I really don't wish to get to involved to much about the Sabbath, since the thread was about "THE MONUMENTAL ERROR OF ELLEN GOULD HARMON WHITE." I personally do not recognize her as a prophetess, nor the SDA as a legitimate facet of Christianity . . . but that does not mean I view members of SDA as non-brethren, rather that there is much error over all in SDA doctrine.

However, to me the bottom line is simply what Jesus said, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

I fail to see where the Sabbath was changed to Sunday . . . or why, or how it was instituted by or for the Jews alone. Yes, they (the Jews) were told to keep it as a sign of a covenant between God and them (individually) as well as the strangers (non Jewish individuals) which accompanied them in the exodus from Egypt.m However, that does not make it strictly Jewish.

I know that is not a point you yourself has made, nor am I insinuating that it is your perspective or conviction. I am just commenting . . . .

The Sabbath was established on the first 7th day. Who can tell me and show me what day was it done away with . . . in truth?

Peace my sister,

William