Because of our debt to God we love the Jews

[nebula]

REFUTATION #2

[snip]

Would you agree that the "Kingdom of God" is NOT synonymous with the "Kingdom of Israel"?

Can you exegete the Matthew 21:43 verse?

The Acts 1:6-7 event occurred BEFORE the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, and thus the disciples STILL did not understand much of what Jesus had been preaching/teaching. It was ONLY after receiving the Holy Ghost did they begin to understand the prophecies Jesus uttered. I am convinced that they were still hoping (at that time) the "Kingdom of David" (Israel) would be restored to all its former glory and power. BUT Jesus understood this and responded according to all of His prior teachings on the matter.

Was Jesus looking for the re-establishment of physical Israel, OR was He looking again at the day He would RULE on this earth in the "Kingdom of God"? I believe Paul gives us the answer:

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Are you seeking the earthly restoration of the Kingdom to Israel, or are you praying "Thy Kingdom come..."?

It has NOT yet, nor will it come until AFTER the resurrection and rapture of the saints of God.

[snip]

I was thinking about this a bit, and I wondered -

Isn't the Messiah supposed to reign on David's throne?

Isaiah 9:7 - "Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this."

Luke 1:31-33 - "You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

[George]

I will go ahead and start a topic on the Temple of Ezekiel 40-48 -- because this is obviously an area that leaves quite a bit of interpretation. It's going to be a long thread so I'll have to start it another time.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Nebula,

The Solomon Temple?

Solomon's Temple was destroyed by the Babylonians. The temple in Jesus' time on Earth was Herod's Temple, wasn't it?

Solomon's temple was the first and it was destroyed by the Babylonians, however during the time of Nehemiah, the Jews were allowed to once again reconstruct it. Later as Israel became Hellenised, Herod the Great renovated it. Here is a part of an article on it:

http://fsweb.wm.edu/charles/scholarships/n...bergerproj.html

The Herodian Temple and the Hellenization of Second Temple Judaism

Rebecca Waltenberger, Religion, Israel

The interaction of cultures within Eretz Israel is quite complex, particularly in the case of Hellenism and Judaism. Martin Hengel, a leading authority in this field, argues that by the beginning of the Common Era no clear distinction can be made between Judaism and Hellenism in Israel, as interaction and cultural exchange had by that point been taking place for well over three hundred years, beginning with the conquest of Alexander the Great (333 BCE) and the subsequent Ptolemaic period of Israel's history (301-200 BCE). This interaction of cultures takes the form of a gradual acclimation by either group to the understanding, practices, and beliefs of the other -- not necessarily an imposition of one culture on another -- resulting in a sort of composite culture. John M.G. Barclay defines Hellenism as "the common urban culture in the eastern Mediterranean, founded on the Greek language ... typically expressed in certain political and educational institutions and largely maintained by the social elite" (Jews in the Mediterranean Diaspora, 88).

Presumably, this common culture is one foreign to that of tradiational Judaism, but the two meet and meld throughout the Second Temple period (515 BCE-70 CE), during which Jerusalem is a point of convergence. Thsi interaction arguable culminates under Herod the Great (37-4 BCE), whose building projects bring this most Jewish of cities to a level of cultural, social, and economic prestige comparable to that of the greatest centers of the Hellenistic world. I am interested in exploring the specific ways and the extent to which Herod's architectural restoration and renovation of the Temple itself contributed to the overall Hellenization of Israel in this period. In what aspects was the physical form of the Herodian Temple a reflection of Hellenistic values and practice as represented by other temples in the Greek world?

My work will begin by establishing a basis for examining the changes of Herod's renovation to the Temple Mount structure and the sanctuary itself through careful comparison of descriptive accounts of the structure before and after his project. Accounts of the edifice before Herod's construction can be found in the apocryphal books of 1 Esdras, the Wisdom of Ben Sirach, 1 Maccabees, as well as in the Letter of Aristeas (Old Testament Pseudepigrapha) and the Qumran Temple Scroll. Josephus Antiquieties of the Jews (15.11) and the Mishnaic tractate Middot, are among important later accounts describing the Herodian Temple following the renovation. In addition to considering the literary accounts of the Second Temple (whose authors' purposes and ideologies must also be carefully considered), I will also examine the archaeological work of Benjamin Mazar and M. Ben-Dov, who excavated areas on and near the Temple Mount and concentrated on the recovery of Herodian architecture and artifacts.

I was thinking about this a bit, and I wondered -

Isn't the Messiah supposed to reign on David's throne?

Yes, in fact the "government is now on His shoulders". Interestingly enough, a while back I ran across some research about the 12 tribes of Israel, and it appears all are represented now in current Israel, however, the lineage from the throne of David is ironically missing. I know why. Because it was David's progeny that was to inherit the throne forever and Jesus was the last of His lineage eligible for the throne (Mt. 1:6). The Jews are going to be very surprised when Jesus comes as Lord and King of Israel.

But don't be deceived, He is also the God of the Gentiles.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[George]

Out of curiousity Dad Ernie -- Are you denying the existance of the restoration of Israel where Jesus will reign as King? If you do not, but acknowledge that Jesus will again sit on the restoration of Israel, then why 2 houses? A Gentile house and a Jewish house?

Ephesians 4:4-6 Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings George,

Out of curiousity Dad Ernie -- Are you denying the existance of the restoration of Israel where Jesus will reign as King? If you do not, but acknowledge that Jesus will again sit on the restoration of Israel, then why 2 houses? A Gentile house and a Jewish house?

No I am not amill. I believe what it says in Zech 14.

I see the prophecy of the "fig tree budding" in Mt. 24 as a NEW prophecy and not related to the OT prophecies of the regathering of Israel. I have quoted Deut 4:26-31 because, even as you, I believe there will be a "fulness of the gentiles", who will in turn minister the gospel almost solely to the Jews until the "fulness of the Jews" enter into the Kingdom of God. THEN Christ comes AFTER the 3 1/2 year trib period to first resurrect the dead then to rapture "those who are alive and remain". THEN He alights in Jerusalem with ALL HIS SAINTS (Jews & Gentiles) and will reign from there for 1,000 years over all the earth.

During the "war against the saints" by the Beast, I see Israel being overrun and the Christians (Jews & Gentiles) fleeing. Once it has once again been decimated, the Lord will come.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[George]

Bump!

[Guest yod]

no thanks.....I quit that years ago.

[Tyler]

Refering to Dad Ernie's remark that the the Jews will be suprised at Jesus's coming...

Right to a point, however remember there will be 144,000 Jewish Billy Grahams loosed upon the earth shortly!

They will spread the gospel like never before! Plus were forgetting about Elijah, and Enoch, (The two witnesses)? I think both groups will have a vested interest in opening the eyes of the Jews??

We already have men like George over there spreading the good news, so I think quite a few are going to know, or at least have heard what is going to happen!?

Remember God has promised that He will redeem His people!

Only Christ Saves