Choice of Denomination

[MrSealedEternal]

Hello Smalcald I agree with what your saying up to 99.9 % this however is that .1 % I disagre with, see Smalcald this devieding our selves into veriosu denominations is not new to Chistianity but it had its beginning at the out set, please observe PAULs words on the matter. 1 CORINTHIANS 1. 11 - 13 For it has been told to me about you my brothers by Chloe that dissensions exsist among you. What I mean is that each of you say I belonge to Paul, But I to Apollos, But I to Cepheus, But I to Christ. The Christ exists divided. So this being called after this denomination or that is really much like what those were doing. further more their was given only one name that true followers of Christ were given under inspiration and that is Christian, no more no less This however is why I think that so many times we are urging one another into each ones own church as though being else where is not enough. Consider further please Smalcald the councicle given to the congergations in Revelations, as you observe most had things or teaching that were not consistent with the Christian faith, however all must conform to Christ, and those that would not would be removed, also please note what the spirit says, Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit is saying to the congregations. So Smalcald when we are willing to bare our denominational brand marks we are accutley dividing our selves from each other.

The entire point of Paul's argument was that division in the body of Christ is unacceptable.

1 Corinthians 1:13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The denominations only exist to protect false teachings and false "gospel's." If people had Christ as their Lord, they wouldn't trust in man made religion above Him and these denominations wouldn't exist. Paul always dealt with divisions immediately in order to maintain unity of truth. Today people band together to defend lies.

Mr SE

[ONE WHO WISHES TO LOVE GOD]

Hello Smalcald I agree with what your saying up to 99.9 % this however is that .1 % I disagre with, see Smalcald this devieding our selves into veriosu denominations is not new to Chistianity but it had its beginning at the out set, please observe PAULs words on the matter. 1 CORINTHIANS 1. 11 - 13 For it has been told to me about you my brothers by Chloe that dissensions exsist among you. What I mean is that each of you say I belonge to Paul, But I to Apollos, But I to Cepheus, But I to Christ. The Christ exists divided. So this being called after this denomination or that is really much like what those were doing. further more their was given only one name that true followers of Christ were given under inspiration and that is Christian, no more no less This however is why I think that so many times we are urging one another into each ones own church as though being else where is not enough. Consider further please Smalcald the councicle given to the congergations in Revelations, as you observe most had things or teaching that were not consistent with the Christian faith, however all must conform to Christ, and those that would not would be removed, also please note what the spirit says, Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit is saying to the congregations. So Smalcald when we are willing to bare our denominational brand marks we are accutley dividing our selves from each other.

The entire point of Paul's argument was that division in the body of Christ is unacceptable.

1 Corinthians 1:13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

The denominations only exist to protect false teachings and false "gospel's." If people had Christ as their Lord, they wouldn't trust in man made religion above Him and these denominations wouldn't exist. Paul always dealt with divisions immediately in order to maintain unity of truth. Today people band together to defend lies.

Mr SE

Well SE denominations exist out of their own desire or necicity to give themselves a name or title in order to make them distinct from one anothers, kinda like saying this is who we are and this what we believe the problem with that is it goes against what 1 CORINTHIANS 1. 10 About being fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. However with each denominational title comes its own twist or spin on things. Now unlike what Worm say in his post I do believe that if anyone is in a denomination yes they are following Christ word provided that when their denomination is guilty of teaching a courpted gosple they are willing to take a stand for the truth however if they are so enslaved to the denomination that they are not willing to take a stand then really their Lord is that denomination. since we must stand for the truth, not ours, not theirs, but His truth. also Jesus decides whose are his and who are not. I tell the truth there will be some out every one of these denominations because in the judgement he will not ask what denomination one was in, but rather he will ask did we obey his commands, put faith in his Son, and worship with a unhypocrtical love. Now the other problem I observe with denominationlalisum is when gathering people some are gathering for the pupose so they will have more people and to be able to count their contributions from. Your right when we become the ones to devide up people and say ok you are not a believer but that other one is, then we presuming the judgement of God and that I do oppose. SE the council to the 7 congergations shows that each had things they needed to correct so to the same applys to all of us regardless of denomination that we must all hear what the spirit is saying to the congergations and make what ever needed corections we need to make to be holding to the Word of God................

Peace to you SE my brother ^_^

[Arthur Durnan]

The Church of Rome with its unscriptural papacy, purgatory, sacrifice of the mass (in which Jesus is crucified (SACRIFICE of the mass) over & over & over again!, its confessional boxes re confessing to priests, its bodily assumption of Mary, its "Queen of Heaven" tenet, its "immaculate conception," its "Cardinals," and conclaves in a Vatican, etc, has as much in common with the true worldwide New Testament Christian Church of the Living Christ as the ACLU, for example, has with the dreams & aspirations of hard-working, God-loving Judeo-Christian Middle America! Yes, the R.C. church has a biblical future alright, but it's in the context of Revelation Chapters 17 & 18.

Thank God for the scriptural simplicity in Christ Jesus! AMEN!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Smalcald]

Well I agree with much of what St. Worm and what One Who Wishes has said.

We are first Christians of course; followers of Christ, and these silly names we give to our groups of unified believers will fall away in the end. To the degree we focus on our group name to the exclusion of Christ, we are already in trouble.

But as St. Worm has pointed out, these divisions are allowed by God, I don't think we necessarily should always be so worried about them that we refuse to belong to a Christian body of believers.

Look what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:19, "For there must be also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you".

I don't want to be associated with groups of people calling themselves Christians who deny the Trinity, groups like the J-W's or the Mormons, we need division from these groups, division is not always a bad thing, it is allowed by God for sound doctrine. When you argue against denominations you are making the ultimate case that the Roman Catholic Church has always made, that we had unity at one time in history, and they are correct in that, but now because of the Reformation we don't have unity and that is bad, thus the Reformation was a bad thing.

But I would agree with worm that not worshipping with anybody is the ultimate exclusive denomination, a total separation and clubbishness. At least denominations have groups of Christians in unity and that can be a good thing if sound doctrine is followed.

[MrSealedEternal]

You guys are all missing my point. Within the fundamental beliefs of most denominations is a "gospel" that contradicts the true gospel. That is not another path to the same God, it is a religious system of works created by man to cover his own sins, which is in fact a rejection of Jesus Christ. Anyone who believes they will be saved by being good, keeping commandments, "sacraments" , Sabbath keeping, because they can speak in tongues, or any other good works of their own doing, have rejected Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and therefore are not saved. Most denominations teach some form of salvation by ones own efforts, which vary from denomination to denomination, but all are false and will insure that anyone who's faith is in it will spend eternity in Hell.

Some Baptist Churches, Bible Churches, and Non-denominational assemblies do teach that salvation is by God's grace through faith, and those who truly believe that are part of Christ's "ekklesia." All who believe any other gospel are not part of His "ekklesia." This ecumenical attitude that seems prevalent today, that says that we are all part of Christ's Body is a lie from Satan Himself.

These denominations that teach another gospel exist as an attempt to band together to protect a lie. There is only one gospel in the Bible, and therefore all others are false. If you believe another gospel that has you doing something to earn your salvation no matter what it is, then you in fact are not saved.

Mr SE

[st. Worm]

quote:

"Anyone who believes they will be saved by being good, keeping commandments, "sacraments" , Sabbath keeping, because they can speak in tongues, or any other good works of their own doing, have rejected Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and therefore are not saved."

My church does not teach any of those things and but does teach that sinners are declared just for no other reason than the work of Christ. And guess what? I am in a denomination! Doesn't it bother you in the least that you are so blatantly dishonest in what you are saying in your slander of Christians?

[MrSealedEternal]

quote:

"Anyone who believes they will be saved by being good, keeping commandments, "sacraments" , Sabbath keeping, because they can speak in tongues, or any other good works of their own doing, have rejected Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and therefore are not saved."

My church does not teach any of those things and but does teach that sinners are declared just for no other reason than the work of Christ. And guess what? I am in a denomination! Doesn't it bother you in the least that you are so blatantly dishonest in what you are saying in your slander of Christians?

I didn't slander anyone. I said "most denominations." If your denomination is the exception, then I wasn't referring to you. I thought you had said before that you must take your sacraments to be saved? If you have since changed your mind, then Praise The Lord.

What is the name of this denomination anyway?

Mr SE

[st. Worm]

"Some Baptist Churches, Bible Churches, and Non-denominational assemblies do teach that salvation is by God's grace through faith, and those who truly believe that are part of Christ's "ekklesia."

I did not copy all of your post but I think its safe to say you are llsting all of the denominations that meet your approval or that you consider possibly legitimate. Apparently you have condemned mine.

I am a Lutheran and I assure you we do not believe that work's contribute to our salvation. The cross was for all sinners yet that blessed salvation is applied only through the means of His grace, Word and Sacraments. Both work and strengthen faith. If you think these are works then you are sadly mistaken and really don't have enough knowledge to throw around these error ridden opinions.

[MrSealedEternal]

"Some Baptist Churches, Bible Churches, and Non-denominational assemblies do teach that salvation is by God's grace through faith, and those who truly believe that are part of Christ's "ekklesia."

I did not copy all of your post but I think its safe to say you are llsting all of the denominations that meet your approval or that you consider possibly legitimate. Apparently you have condemned mine.

I am a Lutheran and I assure you we do not believe that work's contribute to our salvation. The cross was for all sinners yet that blessed salvation is applied only through the means of His grace, Word and Sacraments. Both work and strengthen faith. If you think these are works then you are sadly mistaken and really don't have enough knowledge to throw around these error ridden opinions.

Your works are works by any name, and God is not impressed by them. By trying to save yourself with sacraments, you have rejected Christ.

Roman 4:5- 6 "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessings upon the man to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works:"

Galatians 2:16 the following "Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Hebrews 10:10 "By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for ALL."

Romans 5:1, 9 "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."

Ephesians 1:13 "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of GOD; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Titus 3:5 "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness but according to HIS mercy."

Mr SE

[st. Worm]

1 Peter 3

"He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also