Christianity and Capitalism

[WillingToDie]

In Acts, it seems as if the Early Christians seemed to live in a sort of socialistic community. IIRC, when a convert would join the community, they would sell all their possesions and give the money to the community.

Other thoughts occur:

-Capitalism, at it's very base (especially before the government stepped in), consists of taking advantage of the poor in order to get rich

-The whole point of Capitalism is to get rich, Christ said it's easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven

---I have heard this explained that this simply means that the rich tend to hoard their money and not give to the poor, at least in Christ's time, althoiugh I'm not completely convinced

There was more, but I forgot. I'll post more as they come to me .

[Kabowd]

Well, from what I understand of capitalism (which I admit is limited) it's about as opposite of the commands of Christ as you can get. Instead of "every man for himself" (which is what capitalism basically is), it should be everyone for the betterment of his neighbor. Basically, the gospel promotes (and demonstrates) sacrifice....which is not what capitalism entails at all.

[WillingToDie]

Well, from what I understand of capitalism (which I admit is limited) it's about as opposite of the commands of Christ as you can get. Instead of "every man for himself" (which is what capitalism basically is), it should be everyone for the betterment of his neighbor. Basically, the gospel promotes (and demonstrates) sacrifice....which is not what capitalism entails at all.

My point exactly. Which is why I wonder, can we, as Christians live, in good faith, in a Capitalistic society? Or am i misinterpreting capitalism?

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

Yes, the early church did voluntarily pool either much or or all of their things together. Which I have also read of the early church.

They also did not participate in the war that burnt Jeruslaem down.

I agree that capitolism at its worst takes advantage of others. But, to have the opportunity to have our own business, we can as Christians not take advantage of others and use it for good. We don't have to use it greedily or in uncaring methods either.

But, any govt or business or person with out Christ will cause harm to others.

Along with the Chistianity and capitolism, I can't help but mention the dangers of conservativism in politics blended with Christians to the point that we fail to see that being a capitolist nation living behind conservative claims to govt, we are finding it totally libral, not conservative as so many of my family had hoped for, in its policy of greed, war, cutbacks to help the poor,corruption and harm to others in many ways. This means, to be clear, that I am saying we need Christianity the REAL in politics, as seperation of church and state was meant that state would not run the church again, so we better be careful it doesn't!) I fail to see the Christianity of many of the agendas behind the conservative claims now and totally they were not in the libral ones to start with in too many ways for my conscience. If we can settle for lesser of two evils, it is not Christian and compromises us in so many ways.

Jesus is the only way, I am sure of this!

HIs ways HE made clear to us and we have to try our best not to be compromised in politics.

He is not the military king , but king of the universe!

Used to say can't opt out , have to try, instead of not voting right? Now I am just going hard and tight forward in JESUS and all HE leads me to do for HIS kingdom. CHRSTIAN FIRST in all my ways lest I offend thee Oh LORD!!!

Infact, the quick bill they were passing for help to our soldiers and victims of Katrina, included a well hidden agenda to drill the artic wild! (the same of libral politics, too.. )(I was a conservative voter.. if neither is Christian in it's whole, I found myself without a representitive and yes I have always believed we must do our best to help make things right in our country by voting. lets face it, voting, capitolism all of it. wont be what ushers in Christs kingdom, nor would we want to be found lost in a fusion of phesudo christianity in politics when the beast comes knocking)(I am not for either without restraints anymore) It felt like being blackmailed last election, as one elective was against abortion would cause such violent war among other things and the other elective was totally unacceptable as Christian beliefs go. Last year changed my focus away from conservative politics and totally back to Christ!

I know with both libral and conservative, there are problems and that is because neither is Christianity, something we need to remember, lest we fuse that and find ourselves with another gospel entirely!

I find nothing conservative about war, greed and private oil companies etc, on the other hand nothing Christian about libral Christians supporting abortion and others things against Gods commands. Maybe, it is time we as Americans realize we are as Christians neither a conservative nor a libral, but CHRISTIANS and do what is right at all times, both personally and in business. We cannot suspend out Christian faith while doing business in anyway. I used to be so shocked that Christians would be voting libral, now I am not able to freely vote conservative either! I didn't want to stand by and do nothing. So I can only pray first and make sure what peole say and what they do are the same thing. Too much hidden agenda and not of Christ.

Too much corruption and evil in high places all ove the world. You will never see in the BIble to read the small print and be ware!

Thank GOD for HIS return, immenent and Holy for the sake of the world!

We need to be consistant in daily sacrificing and doing Gods will over our own.

The early church was so reliable the early Church Christians were hired to do all the money exchanges and record keeping by nonchristians in business in the ports , because their lack of greed and total honesty was totally reliable in Christ in them. It was well known of them. That would be great if the world could see this in Christians in our country today, too!!

But, we are blessed to be the country that does and is ableto send the most help and missionaries to the world. amen!

Also, along these thoughts, I have seen those who think that giving in tithes releases them personally from giving to others as the samaritian did in the Bible.

We are the church. We must continue to be salt and light in this world, or how shall others see Christ in us?

So, I can't really see capitolism in the garden of eden!

Nor, keeping ones personal freedoms away either!

All said , thankfully, he who is free in Christ the SON, is free indeed!!

Thanks for your thoughts and hope mine are taken with understanding also.

elkie

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

long as my post is... another thought here on socialism, it is still not either the same of early Christians, because their leader was JESUS HIMSELF!

not man opressing man or deciding for others.

Their Holy Spirit filled Bishops led them to be salt and light inthe world in Christ as we see in the Scriptures.

The Holy Spirit in them led them, not politics either again.

Mans attempts to rule over other men will never bring peace. That is why JESUS is our Saviour!

Far as us being alright with it, I am not alright with it all. I don't expect to be until JESUS is back.

elkie

[Kabowd]

Well, from what I understand of capitalism (which I admit is limited) it's about as opposite of the commands of Christ as you can get. Instead of "every man for himself" (which is what capitalism basically is), it should be everyone for the betterment of his neighbor. Basically, the gospel promotes (and demonstrates) sacrifice....which is not what capitalism entails at all.

My point exactly. Which is why I wonder, can we, as Christians live, in good faith, in a Capitalistic society? Or am i misinterpreting capitalism?

In the world but not of it. There never has been (and never will be..until the return of Christ) a perfect society. All fall short of being perfect examples of God's desire and heart. We don't succeed by insulating ourselves, or isolating ourselves from what is "wrong" with the world. We succeed by infiltrating it and shining our light brighter than ever, so that the world around us might be changed.

[deadman1204]

I figure the passage refers to the question of - how can a man gather vast wealth easily and still be living God's word? Some are blessed with riches by the lord, but what you do with them can be evidence of your salvation/lack thereof.

I see no sin in competing for a profit, but the moment you are taking advantage of others/hurting them for your benifit, you cross the line. Capitalism is something that REALLY needs to be closely watched, and is far to unfettered a thing in America.

As for Christianity and politics, I automatically start out mistrustful of anyone who claims a "Christian" agenda. To date I have not heard of a single Christian politican who reflects thier beliefs throughout thier career - not just for "photo-op" votes. It usually just seems a ploy to appeal to a certain set of voters.

In the end though, you cannot have a successful Christian politican - its impossible. Politics is about compromise. A good Christian cannot compromise his views. He would get no where in congress, and utterly fail to get re-elected because he wasn't able to accomplish much because he wouldn't oil the machine.

[apothanein kerdos]

We don't live in a Capitalistic society though

Pure Capitalism, as it was before and shortly after the turn of the century, is definately, without a doubt, anti-Christian. Certain ideas of Capitalism though, are very Biblical. The fact you have to work to survive and not get a free ride in society is Biblical. However, the exploitation of workers, allowing companies to do as they will....none of this is Biblical. Capitalism tends to put too much focus on the individual efforts and not the efforts of the individual within society. Biblicaly we are to watch out for our neighbours, for those around us....we are to care for the community. Capitalism doesn't preach this, it is "dog eat dog", thus it is not very compatible with the Bible at all.

Again though, we don't live in a Capitalistic society per se. While certain tennets do exist and we, as Christians, should stand against that, we do have welfare (though flawed), social security, and other benefits of socialism. I advocate strongly for mixing the two economic systems so both the individual and community is served.

[Leonard]

Godless capitalism is not any better than Godless communism. Communism is, however, Godless by definition. Capitalism has much to commend it to the Christians. It is a system which protects private property, which God is in favor of. It is also a system which can be misused by Godless people, just like they misuse everything else.

[deadman1204]

I believe communism has been given a bad rap. The world examples were never communism anyway. China, USSR and such are dictatorships. The apostles after Jesus died were living a real communist example.

Communism has something great in it that capitalsim can NEVER have. In communism, you are not attached to your property. It's everyones, thus elements of greed and temptation to be more attached to the physical do not exist. Captitalism states that you must fight/out compete others for possesion of physical goods/money. That society (ours for example) places such a greater emphasis on material wealth, leaving a greater opening for sin.

I do not see how God is in favor of private property or protecting your wealth. Any of these things hinder our spiritual growth, as they cause us to worry about how much money we have, instead of sharing love/God's word with others. Remember the young lord who just couldnt give it all up to follow Jesus? How many times does Jesus say not to worry about tomorrow, if you will have enough food, or the right clothes? The birds do not raise/store food, yet the Father feeds them, and how much better are we than them?

edit: fixing typos

Edited January 1, 2006 by deadman1204