Hot, Cold or Lukewarm?

[Christ's Free Servant]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

[Kabowd]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

Okay, I guess it just seems unusual to me. I mean, when someone gives you the Greek word, which has a very specific meaning...how much thinking is left?

[Christ's Free Servant]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

Okay, I guess it just seems unusual to me. I mean, when someone gives you the Greek word, which has a very specific meaning...how much thinking is left?

Tess,

There are varied interpretations of Greek words. My husband studied Greek in Bible college, but I did not. I can not just automatically just say because Tess said that is what it means that that obviously is what it means. I've read enough to know that. I appreciate your input and I will look into what you said and I will get back with you when I've had time to research it myself. This is not a slight of you, ok? I just like to check things out for myself.

[Smalcald]

In the following passage of scripture, Jesus states to the church at Laodecia that because they are neither hot nor cold but rather are lukewarm that he is about to spit them out of his mouth. What category do you believe fits your life, if you care to say, and what do you think it means to be "hot" or "lukewarm"? Without getting legalistic, what do you think are the dividing factors between a believer who is "hot" and a believer who is "lukewarm"? And, based upon the following passage, what do you think it means when he says "I am about to spit you out of my mouth"? Do you think believers today take this seriously? Do you? And, if so, what difference should it make in your life? I've been giving this a lot of thought lately:

Back to the origninal question.

I find nowhere in these mentioned scriptures about water. Christ was referring to thier works.

I have always seen this scripture as three types of believers:

1. Cold - those who are not living Christianity, they are still living in thier sins.

2. Lukewarm - those who are double minded (James 1:8). I go to Church and call myself a Christian yet will give up some sins and still hold onto certain sins. i.e I can give up drinking, lying, and stealing, but I still live in fornication and swear. I am what's called "Straddling the fence". This is what you would call a hypocrite.

2. Hot - I give myself completely over to God and Christ's doctrine. My heart and my life belong to God and my life reflects that.

The reason God would spew out a "lukewarm" Christian is because they are the most damaging to a congregation. They cast a reprach on the "Body of Christ". Could you imagine seeing your preacher comming out of a bar every Saturday night just to have to listen to him on Sunday preach to you about Christian living? Would listen to those who teach on the behaviour of children and marriage if thier house was not in order? We are supposed to be examples for each other and edify each other and I can't be there for you when my life is still filled with sins. (Galatians 6:1)

Christ wrote to these 7 churches because they had some problems in their congregations that need to be fixed. Most were told to repent or Christ would remove thier candlesticks. The candlesticks were the churches and if they did not repent they would be removed. We know that the churches are the people.

God wouldn't have to worry about cold people because they would just leave the church anyway. Anybody cold to Christianity would not bother themselves to to attend.

As far as the question of a whole congregation repenting, If you have preachers and teachers that start swaying from the truth and begin to teach things other than what was taught them, they can lead the whole congregation into apostasy. If the preachers and teachers are corrected or replaced and the truth starts to be taught and lived again by the congregation then they have repented of the apostasy.

Cardcaptor,

VERY GOOD! I applaud you on staying with the subject at hand!! And, I appreciate very much your insight on this subject. You have some very valid arguments worth consideration. I also believe that those who think "cold" is referring to being "refreshing or encouraging" also have a valid argument to consider, though I do have one problem with it. Why would Christ say that either they were hot or cold and that he would rather they be one or the other but instead they are lukewarm? It seems to be that hot and cold are diametrically opposed to each other. I think that because he says they are one or the other. If cold means encouraging and hot means healing, these do not seem to be opposites but rather are complimentary and are even of the same nature. So, I'm still working that one through. I do agree that your evaluation has always seemed to be the generally accepted thought on the subject, though "generally accepted" does not always mean correct. I do agree with your assessment of "lukewarm" Christians, though. I believe they are the most damaging to the cause of Christ.

It actually is important for us to determine what Christ means by "cold nor hot" because this effects the application of the verse. I would submit further evidence that because "nor" (oute) is a conjuction, it means "both" not "either/or." In other words, in the first half of the sentence, Jesus is saying, "You're not cold and likewise you're not hot..." This is the first part...they are neither refreshing or showing a zeal for the Lord. Jesus says that He would prefer they at least have one of these attributes, because then they would be useful. Saying "cold" refers to absolute denial of God and that lukewarm is somewhere in between doesn't fit in the context. Verse 17 shows us their sin; apathy and contentment; this would be "cold" if we took cold to mean what everyone is saying it means.

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

Well it is one way of looking at cold, and I don't think it is invalid at all. Although I think the way I was thinking of lukewarm, it does not mean almost faithful, or almost there, it means a blindness which does not produce repentance, thus the Lord needs to smack their eyes open to get their attention, and thus the need for the severe letter and tone.

Hi Christ's Free Servant. Isn't the bible amazing. There is just so much there for us to think about. For me any of these interpretations are useful and helpful to me personally and my church. I think it is meant to make us think in this way, maybe there is not in this case only one correct way of understanding this passage?

[apothanein kerdos]

There are varied interpretations of Greek words.

No, not so much in this case. It's definately as it is written. Look at it in conctext...because it's a conjection, it's joining the two seperate ideas, it isn't "either/or" it means "both."

[Kabowd]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

Okay, I guess it just seems unusual to me. I mean, when someone gives you the Greek word, which has a very specific meaning...how much thinking is left?

Tess,

There are varied interpretations of Greek words. My husband studied Greek in Bible college, but I did not. I can not just automatically just say because Tess said that is what it means that that obviously is what it means. I've read enough to know that. I appreciate your input and I will look into what you said and I will get back with you when I've had time to research it myself. This is not a slight of you, ok? I just like to check things out for myself.

Perfect I'm always for people checking things out. What's annoying is when they completely ignore instruction of any kind, opting instead to just form an opinion based on what they "think". Not saying you're doing that, but I know that some people do that regularly. They'd rather go "oh I think it means this" and ignore what someone who has studied it says. Proverbs calls that person a fool. Just for the record, I wasn't the one who posted it, I'm not a Greek scholar either But I know enough to learn from those who are wiser and more educated than I am. So I listen.

Hope you find the answers you're looking for

[apothanein kerdos]

Well it is one way of looking at cold, and I don't think it is invalid at all. Although I think the way I was thinking of lukewarm, it does not mean almost faithful, or almost there, it means a blindness which does not produce repentance, thus the Lord needs to smack their eyes open to get their attention, and thus the need for the severe letter and tone.

No, it's a language. It either is or isn't...there is not a "varied way" to look at it.

[Smalcald]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

Okay, I guess it just seems unusual to me. I mean, when someone gives you the Greek word, which has a very specific meaning...how much thinking is left?

But the Greek word he is talking about is nor, not the meaning of hot or cold in this context. It helps us because Christ indeed does say He would prefer cold or hot to lukewarm, but what about cold? In my way of looking at it cold could mean being a lost sheep, but a lost sheep has a chance at repentance, this is better than thinking one does not need repentance, which is the worst possible position for a person to be in.

[Kabowd]

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

You are not being ignored. We're thinking... catch you tomorrow.

Okay, I guess it just seems unusual to me. I mean, when someone gives you the Greek word, which has a very specific meaning...how much thinking is left?

But the Greek word he is talking about is nor, not the meaning of hot or cold in this context. It helps us because Christ indeed does say He would prefer cold or hot to lukewarm, but what about cold? In my way of looking at it cold could mean being a lost sheep, but a lost sheep has a chance at repentance, this is better than thinking one does not need repentance, which is the worst possible position for a person to be in.

Because if we follow the Greek definitions for "rather" and "nor" we understand He was literally saying "I wish you were cold, or I wish you were hot, but you are neither". Thus, it doesn't matter what "cold" means....we can conclude Christ wished that we would be BOTH hot AND cold. Cold could not be "lost" or bad because He would never wish that.

[Fiosh]

In the following passage of scripture, Jesus states to the church at Laodecia that because they are neither hot nor cold but rather are lukewarm that he is about to spit them out of his mouth. What category do you believe fits your life, if you care to say, and what do you think it means to be "hot" or "lukewarm"? Without getting legalistic, what do you think are the dividing factors between a believer who is "hot" and a believer who is "lukewarm"? And, based upon the following passage, what do you think it means when he says "I am about to spit you out of my mouth"? Do you think believers today take this seriously? Do you? And, if so, what difference should it make in your life? I've been giving this a lot of thought lately:

Back to the origninal question.

I find nowhere in these mentioned scriptures about water. Christ was referring to thier works.

I have always seen this scripture as three types of believers:

1. Cold - those who are not living Christianity, they are still living in thier sins.

2. Lukewarm - those who are double minded (James 1:8). I go to Church and call myself a Christian yet will give up some sins and still hold onto certain sins. i.e I can give up drinking, lying, and stealing, but I still live in fornication and swear. I am what's called "Straddling the fence". This is what you would call a hypocrite.

2. Hot - I give myself completely over to God and Christ's doctrine. My heart and my life belong to God and my life reflects that.

The reason God would spew out a "lukewarm" Christian is because they are the most damaging to a congregation. They cast a reprach on the "Body of Christ". Could you imagine seeing your preacher comming out of a bar every Saturday night just to have to listen to him on Sunday preach to you about Christian living? Would listen to those who teach on the behaviour of children and marriage if thier house was not in order? We are supposed to be examples for each other and edify each other and I can't be there for you when my life is still filled with sins. (Galatians 6:1)

Christ wrote to these 7 churches because they had some problems in their congregations that need to be fixed. Most were told to repent or Christ would remove thier candlesticks. The candlesticks were the churches and if they did not repent they would be removed. We know that the churches are the people.

God wouldn't have to worry about cold people because they would just leave the church anyway. Anybody cold to Christianity would not bother themselves to to attend.

As far as the question of a whole congregation repenting, If you have preachers and teachers that start swaying from the truth and begin to teach things other than what was taught them, they can lead the whole congregation into apostasy. If the preachers and teachers are corrected or replaced and the truth starts to be taught and lived again by the congregation then they have repented of the apostasy.

Cardcaptor,

VERY GOOD! I applaud you on staying with the subject at hand!! And, I appreciate very much your insight on this subject. You have some very valid arguments worth consideration. I also believe that those who think "cold" is referring to being "refreshing or encouraging" also have a valid argument to consider, though I do have one problem with it. Why would Christ say that either they were hot or cold and that he would rather they be one or the other but instead they are lukewarm? It seems to be that hot and cold are diametrically opposed to each other. I think that because he says they are one or the other. If cold means encouraging and hot means healing, these do not seem to be opposites but rather are complimentary and are even of the same nature. So, I'm still working that one through. I do agree that your evaluation has always seemed to be the generally accepted thought on the subject, though "generally accepted" does not always mean correct. I do agree with your assessment of "lukewarm" Christians, though. I believe they are the most damaging to the cause of Christ.

It actually is important for us to determine what Christ means by "cold nor hot" because this effects the application of the verse. I would submit further evidence that because "nor" (oute) is a conjuction, it means "both" not "either/or." In other words, in the first half of the sentence, Jesus is saying, "You're not cold and likewise you're not hot..." This is the first part...they are neither refreshing or showing a zeal for the Lord. Jesus says that He would prefer they at least have one of these attributes, because then they would be useful. Saying "cold" refers to absolute denial of God and that lukewarm is somewhere in between doesn't fit in the context. Verse 17 shows us their sin; apathy and contentment; this would be "cold" if we took cold to mean what everyone is saying it means.

reposting this because he gave the original word and it's meaning....but it appears it's been ignored.

Nope. I acknowledged it and expressed the fact that I thought it made good sense. I simply stated that I also see some merit in the alternative interpretation. Not to mention that I can read, I can think, and I own a concordance.