Hot, Cold or Lukewarm?

[apothanein kerdos]

St. Worm -

Take a few classes on biblical exegesis and then get back to us.

[Kabowd]

If your criteria is that the church = individuals than I disagree.

Wow, you're really digging yourself a hole here. Now you claim that the church is not made up of individuals. Have fun trying to explain that one now too.

If you do not distinguish between the institution of the church and individual believers, then we have little to talk about.

This is just you're way of trying to excuse your comments. We have plenty to talk about. Now, not only am I interested in hearing your answers regarding the previous questions, we have this additional point of contention to clear up now too. Talk away.

I did give reasons why I think the passage has only limited if any applicability to individuals and that was based on a principle of interpretation.

You did? Where? All I see is your statements which have been void of any verifiable evidence to support them. As it stands, you've offered no reasons at all for anything.

If I use your principle I will wind up with an incredible number of problems when trying to impose that on the whole Bible.

Yay, more allegations and still no proof. I still have no idea what your "principle" entails. Until you disclose it you are really in no position to tell me how mine is in error.

[st. Worm]

Tess, I am afraid you are being somewhat dishonest in what you are saying. Whether you disagree with me or not I have given fairly clear reasons why I interpret the passage as I do. Ironically you have given absolutely no reasons why you interpret it as you do other than just because. I await your explanation and more importantly I await what I need to do as an individual to prove I am worthy of salvation and not lukewarm if you wish to make it applicable to me as a believer. Please respond.

[apothanein kerdos]

Tess, I am afraid you are being somewhat dishonest in what you are saying. Whether you disagree with me or not I have given fairly clear reasons why I interpret the passage as I do. Ironically you have given absolutely no reasons why you interpret it as you do other than just because. I await your explanation and more importantly I await what I need to do as an individual to prove I am worthy of salvation and not lukewarm if you wish to make it applicable to me as a believer. Please respond.

Oh this post is a bunch of poo. You didn't give a reason anywhere, and if you did, copy and paste it. Everyone on here has given a very adequate reason except for you. Prove me wrong on this.

[Kabowd]

Tess, I am afraid you are being somewhat dishonest in what you are saying. Whether you disagree with me or not I have given fairly clear reasons why I interpret the passage as I do. Ironically you have given absolutely no reasons why you interpret it as you do other than just because. I await your explanation and more importantly I await what I need to do as an individual to prove I am worthy of salvation and not lukewarm if you wish to make it applicable to me as a believer. Please respond.

Oh this post is a bunch of poo. You didn't give a reason anywhere, and if you did, copy and paste it. Everyone on here has given a very adequate reason except for you. Prove me wrong on this.

lolol...exactly. This is sort of becoming comical. Basically, he can't support anything he's said. He's trying to change the subject or divert it by making accusations against me now. Figures. Well, at least we know just to ignore him now.

[st. Worm]

Just as I thought Tess, you have no explanation.

[apothanein kerdos]

Just as I thought Tess, you have no explanation.

Nor do you. I'm waiting for you to show us where you explained why you believe what you believe.

[Smalcald]

Well Paul does address his letters a little differently than this passage in Revelation is addressed. Paul will usually say to the saints of the church of... or to the Churches of Galatia, etc.

Where in this passage we have "to the angel of the church of...." This is much more directed at the corporate body as a whole. The first passage says write letters to the seven churches. It does not say to the souls of the churches (although I am not saying that would preclude individual actions or intent).

But I think the point is about the church itself being lukewarm, now a lukewarm Church is obviously comprised of lukewarm believers. I don't know what a believer who refuses to belong to any visible corporate body or church would be called, they are rarely ever addressed in the New Testament, where the entire assumption is that any believer would seek to be with other believers in one group, in one Body. We work as a group, the bible is written to a body of believers.

So I think to follow these instructions and warnings would be first and foremost to ensure that our Churches are not lukewarm, we can do that by not being lukewarm ourselves and by working to improve the visible Church. Churches can be weighted down by the non-spiritual, some is necessary business sometimes the mundane really is necessary for the spiritual, some things however I think lead us away from our true mission which must always be held before us in the church.

[st. Worm]

"Nor do you. I'm waiting for you to show us where you explained why you believe what you believe."

You need to backtrack dear soul. Its all there. From what I can tell you have gone down the wrong rabbit trail because you fail to distinguish between individuals, even saved individuals in a lukewarm church and the lukewarm church itself. Am I correct?

[apothanein kerdos]

You need to backtrack dear soul. Its all there.

Quote it. I'm not going to look it up. You quote it to me. Post number and all.