Rev 20:7-10

[OneAccord]

Here's another question I get confused about:

In Old Testament prophecy we see a lot about the Day of Wrath which I assume to be the Great Tribulation that ushers in the millenial reign.

But here in Revelation we see this other great war at the end of the 1000 years.

Are some of the OT references for the pre-millenial Great Trib and some of them for the post-millenial war, and if so, how does one distinguish between the two?????

[Catsmeow]

Boy, same here..this stuff's over my head. I always sensed that there's some big conflict that occurs after the 1,000 year reign of the Lord, where maybe Satan is released once again to do his usual damage...

I wouldn't begin to argue this...I really don't know for sure.

[OneAccord]

Does the Old Testament speak of a millenial reign at all? Or is this 'millenial kingdom' a notion brought about by Rev 20:7-10 Are we trying to interpret OT prophetic kingdom in light of this passage?

Thus far in my journey through the prophetic books of the Bible searching these questions out, I have not found any scripture that makes the restoration of Israel out to be a thousand year reign that ends in one last war. There seems to be only ONE day of the Lord, not two different events(Tribulation and later Gog and Magog), one kingdom and not two consecutive kingdoms.

The only way I can make this millenial kingdom fit is if I consider the Day of the Lord to be a thousand year Day, that begins with a night of warth (Trib) and ends with a 1000 year glorious kingdom on earth. But even then I still don't see the final war mentioned in Rev:7-10 alluded to in OT prophecy.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OneAccord,

I will give it a shot, but my biasness may show through and there may yet be a picture I am not seeing.

I believe Daniel to be the definitive scriptures in the OT, and I believe the furtherest future event I believe it tells of is the time around:

Daniel 7:21-22 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

which is also written in:

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

and then Daniel was told:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

and then John was given FURTHER vision as Jesus OPENED up the seals:

Revelation 5:2-5 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

So the NT, in particular Revelation, picks up where the OT leaves off. The next step just prior to the Lord's 2nd coming is:

Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

After this event occurs we see:

Revelation 20:1-4 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Then comes the end:

Revelation 20:5-8 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

and at the end we see Gog and Magog, the final big war.

Does that help?

blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Crusader4Christ]

OA: First, we have the great tribulation ( Jacob's trouble, end times, the

Apocalypse), then we have Armageddon, then the Beast and the False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire, Satan is bound in chains for 1000 years, we have the millennium, and then Satan is released, and gathers Gog and Magog again, and all the demons, and all rebelling men, and they gather

around the "camp of the saints", the beloved city. But, they will be devoured

by a fire from Heaven, and are tossed into the lake of fire for eternity. Then,

God burns up the heavens and the earth with fervent heat, burning up the

elements, and a new heavens and a new earth are formed.

Whew! What a mouthful!

[OneAccord]

That was a very clear explanation, Dad Ernie. So what you are suggesting is that the millenial reign and the final war of Armeggedon at the end of the reign are nowhere alluded to in OT prophecy, rather this information was sealed up and revealed later to John when he was given the Book of Revelation?

The OT prophecy of the coming kingdom were thus references to the millenial kingdom and not the eternal kingdom that comes later? Was the eternal kingdom then a mystery in the same way the church was a mystery? Or perhaps it was the millenial kingdom that was a mystery and the OT prophecy speaks of the eternal kingdom?

And at what point do the new heanvens and the new earth come in, before or after the millenial kingdom?

[OneAccord]

OA: First, we have the great tribulation ( Jacob's trouble, end times, the

Apocalypse), then we have Armageddon, then the Beast and the False Prophet are thrown into the lake of fire, Satan is bound in chains for 1000 years, we have the millennium, and then Satan is released, and gathers Gog and Magog again, and all the demons, and all rebelling men, and they gather

around the "camp of the saints", the beloved city. But, they will be devoured

by a fire from Heaven, and are tossed into the lake of fire for eternity. Then,

God burns up the heavens and the earth with fervent heat, burning up the

elements, and a new heavens and a new earth are formed.

Whew! What a mouthful!

Hi Crusader:

What you are putting forth is the timeline that is popular in Christianity today, what I call 'pop theology', just like the rapture theories that are popular right now.

The deeper I get into my Bible Study the more I lay all the pop theology on the table for serious examination. Perhaps when I'm through examining it I will feel satisfied with this timeline, but right now I am questioning it because I'm having trouble making sense of it and sorting it all.

This popular timeline has two kingdoms and two major wraths

The Great Tribulation and the 1000 year kingdom, then the Battle of Armegeddon and the eternal kingdom.

In the Old Testament prophecies, which comprise nearly all of the prophecies of the Bible, there seems to be only one Day of Wrath, and one coming kingdom.

Unless what Dad Ernie put forth is true, that one of the kingdoms and one of the wraths was sealed up and not revealed at all, thus being a mystery like the church was a mystery, I don't see the same timeline put forth in OT.

If one of the kingdoms was a mystery, then which one? Is OT references to the kingdom the 1000 year kingdom or the eternal kingdom?

And again, when do we get the new heaven and the new earth, before or after the millenium?

[Adstar]

Are some of the OT references for the pre-millenial Great Trib and some of them for the post-millenial war, and if so, how does one distinguish between the two?????

[Mrs Mac]

Millenium Prophesied in OT

Isaiah 2:1-4

Isaiah 11: 1-12,

The Day of Wrath (The Tribulation)Prophesied in OT

Zeph 1:15-18

Zech. 14

[Guest shadow2b]

Here's another question I get confused about:

In Old Testament prophecy we see a lot about the Day of Wrath which I assume to be the Great Tribulation that ushers in the millenial reign.

But here in Revelation we see this other great war at the end of the 1000 years.

Are some of the OT references for the pre-millenial Great Trib and some of them for the post-millenial war, and if so, how does one distinguish between the two?????

THE day of the wrath of GOD & the great tribulation are TWO different things--two different times---two different events---BUT SO many christians canNOT "SEE" that -----THE great trib. is the {WRATH OF THE DEVIL}which is poured out against christians--REV.12.vs.16-17----REV.7.vss.9-17--REV.6.vss.6-11------matt.24.vss.3--thru.31---mark.13.vss.4.thru.27---luke.21.vss.7.thru.28------

IT is very interesting that in each instance when JESUS is describing the times of tribulation{trials for the christian}& HIS RETURN HE begins by stating {be not deceived} many FALSE christs shall appear & shall deceive many....JESUS wouldNOT be telling "warning" those that are NOT HIS disciples to be careful, don't be deceived "IF" HIS disciples "wereNOT" on earth going thru this time of tribulation---

The "wrath" of GOD is poured out on an UNrepentent world & that is what HIS people willNOT go thru

or even see-----------------

ISAIAH.26.vss.20.&21-----Come,my people,enter thou into thy chambers,and shut thy doors about thee;hide thyself as it were for a little moment,until the indignation be overpast.-----

For,behold,the LORD cometh out of HIS place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;the earth also shall disclose her blood,and shall no more cover her slain.

ISAIAH 27.vs.1--IN that day the LORD with HIS sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent,even leviathan that crooked serpent;and HE shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.------

GOD states that HIS WRATH--HIS punishment--HIS JUDGEMENT--on an UNrepentant world {MAN} is

A moment of "indignation" which "IF" you stop & think about these TWO events--HOW could {the great tribulation--the devils wrath --anger} even be compared to GOD'S judgement?????

I sincerely hope i have not confused anyone, for my intention is to show the difference between the pitiful attempt of satan to punish,cause hardship to--even kill some of GOD'S people AND this final judgement of GOD on satan, those angels that followed him in the rebellion & those men-women that satan has deceived & followed him ....

GOD'S "moment" of indignation that HE does not want HIS people to even see, for ME that just boggles my imagination...--I just canNOT concieve of HOW or WHAT "THAT" judgement &/or punishment will consist of----AND that punishment is "something" other than & before they are all cast into the lake of fire---------------I think????????????----

Comments or corrections will be appreciated---BUT then again???-- ------Gary----