Frustrations of a struggling Christian

[apothanein kerdos]

Hey ya'll

This post of mine may turn into a small rant, or it may not which I would rather as I have some studying to do for tomorrows exams in Psychology and Computer Networking.

I've been following this board for..who knows how long? I remember (scientificatheist I think?) turn to Christianity, now he is called BreadofLife? That has been a turning point for me, maybe God IS listening after all! Well, nowadays I've been wondering. How on earth can I love Him? Im earnestly yearning for Him, I AM a Christian (a Presbyterian to be precise) and know all about God. I study Apologetics and the Bible in my spare time, yet I have my doubts. IS God real? Is the Bible trustworthy? Above all, how can I love Him? I see my father, a former pastor, now going around the US in his truck delivering loads, and God's word when the Holy Spirit prompts him, and I see true love. True love between him, God, mom. How can I get that? Something is keeping me back I think, personally I think that the questions about the Bible are just on the surface, that I long for God more than I long to know reliability (though I would appreciate a little feed back. I am reading the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel right now, but it is not...strong...enough.) The question is, how can I grow in my relationship? This is very frustrating. On the one hand, I'm scared that it is ALL a myth, on the other I know He's real.

Eh, I don't think I can continue on rambling, I pray that you guys understand this meaning. Yes, I believe in prayer and I would like to become a missionary and pastor, counselor, psychologist, but somethings holding me back..maybe its the struggles I went through with porn, masturbation, homosexual feelings, all of which I got rid of with SettingCaptivesFree, though the temptations still there. All in all..Im just sooo tired and weary of looking like a "true Christian" to my friends and family, yet struggling and not finding Him at all. I give advice, prodded by the Holy Spirit, though now I'm losing it. I remember praying that I get to see the athiest's view of things if it is in God's view, I guess it is as when I am out of Church I feel like this is a myth, it takes a real life and death struggle to kneel and pray everynight by my bed, and in the morning in the shower. This little "ritual" of mine is an effort to get to know Him. Searching for the God I never knew, yet know..that's me.

Any advice for this 16 year old Christian dude? Please?

God bless,

sc

Ps. I am wondering, what if all this is because of my mind? God being something I got ahold of as a result of my struggles, the rest just feelings, and miracle healings I hear about just the placebo effect? Please help me, God is my long lost love, and Im running to find Him.

You know, I could give you the answers, but the reward in that would be less fulfilling. You're intelligent. I encourage you to read authors such as Moreland, Pearcey, Schaeffer, Guiness, Whittmer, Molar, and the like. These guys (and girl) are not surface level apologetics, they really get into the nitty gritty of it.

[bgoalie35]

I would completely agree about Strobel not being strong enough. Strobel takes a cosmetic approach to apologetics, without really digging into all the issues. He's not nearly as thoughtful and insightful about these issues as you are sc

Apothanein brings up some good authors, I might also add some biblical history from Luke Timothy Johnson and N.T. Wright. Two guys that write REALLY long books, but they are packed full of good stuff. It may be a lot to digest, and if its too much, I apologize. Others (wiser than me) here may can recommend better reading if you would like.

Haven't heard from you since your opening post, and I'm hoping you are doing OK. Drop us a line and let us know if we are any help at all, or refocus us if not. Hope this finds you well,

Brian

[ted]

Great authors, but.....

In the meantime, we still have the matter of the original post and poster.

SC, any thoughts or developements since you last posted in here?

t.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Tubal,

By believing these things, you are suspending your common sense and saying that everything you ever learned in school is wrong,

Not everything I learned in School is wrong. Mathematics are hard to mess up. They are a proven fact and carry weight. Like 2 plus 2 equalling 4.

As far as what my Logical mind can tell me about the Supernatural Kingdom of God? I try every time to rely on my Faith, it carry's more weight.

It seems easy for you Tubal to believe that there is a hereafter. Yet when it comes to Truths of the hereafter nothing sticks. like Mathematics there are Absolutes and God has made them known.

because at no time in recorded history were the laws of nature ever suspended in behalf of any individual or group of people.

I beg to differ. The weight of the evidence points to the fact that Jesus Christ lives.

Now, due to the fact that this is possible. It must also follow that if this part of the Word of God has held to be True? Then Donkeys most certainly talked, and the Sea parted for the Israelites at the very Word of God, as well as the Sun standing still at the behest of Joshua son of Nun, also son of God by Faith in Gods very Word.

It is really a simple equation. You cannot understand the Supernatural because you are born of the natural. The natural is corrupt therefore it's motives are corrupt. This goes for the unregenerate mind too.

Peace,

Dave

[Fiosh]

" because at no time in recorded history were the laws of nature ever suspended in behalf of any individual or group of people."

uh...maybe they were. you can't believe everything you read, but this event was witnessed by thousands, is found in any major secular encyclopedia, and has never been effectively disputed. so you decide.

Peace,

Fiosh

An Eyewitness Account by Dr. Jos

[Fiosh]

Hey ya'll

This post of mine may turn into a small rant, or it may not which I would rather as I have some studying to do for tomorrows exams in Psychology and Computer Networking.

I've been following this board for..who knows how long? I remember (scientificatheist I think?) turn to Christianity, now he is called BreadofLife? That has been a turning point for me, maybe God IS listening after all! Well, nowadays I've been wondering. How on earth can I love Him? Im earnestly yearning for Him, I AM a Christian (a Presbyterian to be precise) and know all about God. I study Apologetics and the Bible in my spare time, yet I have my doubts. IS God real? Is the Bible trustworthy? Above all, how can I love Him? I see my father, a former pastor, now going around the US in his truck delivering loads, and God's word when the Holy Spirit prompts him, and I see true love. True love between him, God, mom. How can I get that? Something is keeping me back I think, personally I think that the questions about the Bible are just on the surface, that I long for God more than I long to know reliability (though I would appreciate a little feed back. I am reading the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel right now, but it is not...strong...enough.) The question is, how can I grow in my relationship? This is very frustrating. On the one hand, I'm scared that it is ALL a myth, on the other I know He's real.

Eh, I don't think I can continue on rambling, I pray that you guys understand this meaning. Yes, I believe in prayer and I would like to become a missionary and pastor, counselor, psychologist, but somethings holding me back..maybe its the struggles I went through with porn, masturbation, homosexual feelings, all of which I got rid of with SettingCaptivesFree, though the temptations still there. All in all..Im just sooo tired and weary of looking like a "true Christian" to my friends and family, yet struggling and not finding Him at all. I give advice, prodded by the Holy Spirit, though now I'm losing it. I remember praying that I get to see the athiest's view of things if it is in God's view, I guess it is as when I am out of Church I feel like this is a myth, it takes a real life and death struggle to kneel and pray everynight by my bed, and in the morning in the shower. This little "ritual" of mine is an effort to get to know Him. Searching for the God I never knew, yet know..that's me.

Any advice for this 16 year old Christian dude? Please?

God bless,

sc

Ps. I am wondering, what if all this is because of my mind? God being something I got ahold of as a result of my struggles, the rest just feelings, and miracle healings I hear about just the placebo effect? Please help me, God is my long lost love, and Im running to find Him.

Hey sc,

Nice to meet you. "How can I grow in my relationship?"....excellent question.

The fact that you even ask the question shows your spiritual maturity. God IS drawing you into a relationship. Someone made the point earlier that you are being called to a deeper level of relationship; I agree.

Think about this, sc. Do you know people who seem to believe in God very "easily". They don't seem to have a single doubt or question; just seem to accept that God IS. Do you also notice that many of them are very "shallow" Christians...going thru the motions but not desiring a deep relationship?

A person who goes thru doubt and searching, and perseveres, comes away with a deeper truth and a more intense love of God.

Don't be fooled. Not one of the astute Christian brothers and sisters here have a perfect faith. None are satisfied with their relationship with Jesus Christ; or at least they shouldn't be. We should always strive for a deeper and more intimate friendship with Jesus. And there is no secret to achieving it:

1. Spend time learning about God in His word.

2. Spend time with God in prayer and silence.

3. Fast

4. Ask for the Holy Spirit

It takes commitment to make any relationship work.

Two of my favorite Scripture prayers are...

Mark 9:24 " I do believe, help my unbelief!"

and

Psalm 51: 10-12 "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.

Restore to me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit."

And here's a promise to hold on to....

John 14: 13-17 [i'll let you look this one up]

sc, you are not "losing it". You are being asked to move to another level.

Go to your room. Lock your door. Go to your knees. Confess your sin. Praise God for who He is. Thank Him for your gift of faith. Ask Him, in Jesus' name, to fill you with the Holy Spirit.

Then make time each day to talk with Him.

He will answer.

Peace,

Fiosh

Edited January 20, 2006 by Fiosh

[shepherdsgrace]

According to the book of Hebrews, without faith it is impossible to please him. The simple act of approaching his Word and his person with a step by step faith opens the door for the Holy Spirit to reveal God to us. We are the needy ones. Not God. God does not have to prove himself. But He is generous and kind and He does willingly reveal and illuminate himself to those who approach him even in the least faith. When you read a scripture, just say to yourself and to the Lord, "I believe" or "I accept" this truth and thank him for making it real to you. Your heart and mind will begin to be fed by the reality of the Lord.

God's blessings.......

[sc4s2cg]

Thank you everyone for your advice, I much appreciate it. I would like to apologize first though, as I couldn't reply for a while. The reason? Quite simple really, I had exams all week this week. Today was my last, and, ironically, Art has been the longest and easiest one. Im just afraid the teacher takes points off for "rushing". Ah well, His will be done.

Hmm..The quote tags won't work, please forgive me, so I will be using the bold function instead of quotes. Somehow the quoting stopped at Bread of Life's quote "Not all the time in every way, but on the important points, yeah."

Kwiatek

I am actually very excited for you. Though you may feel very frustrated with where you are and overwelmed, You are taking your steps into entering this more meanful relationship with him. I will keep this reply short becuase I feel you already know that answer to your own question, so forgive me if its not well explained enough.

Thank you very much for this. I must tell you all that sometimes I know something, but hide it until I force it back up. This post has done exactly that, God was speaking through you my friend.

First of all, dont be to discouraged, you heart desires to know him more- and that is the first step to comming closer to God. One thing I saw multiple times in your article was your habit of trying to turn this topic into a achieviable goal you feel you can accomplish by your own effort.

Yes, as of now I feel like God has done everything, and I have done nothing in return. Sure, I got away from sin, but my love for Him is not growing. I think I am supposed to talk to some of the people around me about my struggles, which I will, but what then?

I would encourage you to realize that it is not about "how I can do this" or "how I can get there". Maybe your problem isnt this wall that you are feeling between you and God. Perhaps it is your fear to trust him with all your life. I find constantly in my own life that whenever I begin to take things into my own hands- I constantly find myself more discouraged then before. Instead of beating yourself up about why you dont feel close or reading countless book on howto get closer. Why not simply be close? what I mean is- put down that book, let your thoughts and cunfusions go for a minute, and drop to your knees and pray.

Yes, faith is a struggle with me as well. But why is it? I learned that if I trust God everything will be alright, I know that from experience, but why am I having such a struggle to trust Him? Something is wrong, I probably know what it is but it is buried down, way down, beneath my heart.

find a place of solitude, somewhere where you can be comfortible talking to God. let all your cunfusion out- your anger- your fear- everything. Pray brokenly, "wrestle with God", dont worry he will win. Dont hold anything back for yourself to handle, but instead give it all to him.

This, praying, I have been doing everynight and the morning. You said to wrestle with God, but when I pray I just..cant. My mind goes blank, my heart stops, and all I can do is stutter what I always say "Please help so and so with such and such". Im afraid to wrestle with Him, because I know He'll win. Im also afraid of Him, I know He's good, but I also know He deserves a lot more than being wrestled with, He is my Creator, my Savior. He died for me and came into myplace, how can I wrestle with Him? I want to, but I cant. My mind wont let me.

Maybe you were looking for something more in depth, but sometimes are as simple as dropping to our knees praying- God will take care of the rest. Thats the beauty of his grace- he takes our worries and troubles off of our shoulders and upon to himself. all we need to do is have faith.

Good luck and God bless,

-Erik Kwiatek

Thank you so much once again! The wrestling part, since I have read your post I've been thinking about it. But I'm afraid, afraid that He'll win, that my life will spin out of control, that what I want to do is not His will. What if He wants me to wrestle, why though?

BAatheist

I remember those days....they are incredibly tough. Maybe your God put me here so you can see an Atheistic point of view. Part of me hates doing it on a christian forum though. Maybe you could PM me with you email address or something.

I don't deal in absolutes, I'm going to encourage you to think on your own, to put trust in yourself.

I'll be taking a completely different approach than Kwiatek.

I'm 28, single and I sounded like you at that age. My father was a deacon.

matt

Believe you me Matt, I have seen the Atheistic point of view a while back. I've had "quick flashes" where I felt what you guys must feel. I went to church once and saw what other Atheists have described time and time again, "Theres the songs, the prayer, the guy talking. What a waste of time." Frankly, that scared me, it scared me because if I lingered at that thought for long I can feel me moving from God, not God disappearing, but me letting go of His pinkie that Im holding on with a tight, tight grasp. I've been "debating" Atheists for a year, don't worry to lay out your point of view. From your posts and testimony, I've mentally "grouped", and I mean no offense, you into a little category of mine. Its the one called "Intruiging, wandering, finding."

Im 16, single, male, and you sound like me from your posts. My father is a pastor, my mother was a pastor, they are both majors in Psychology and Counseling. Both of them have true love for God, that is my role model.

Bolts

Greetings to you Matt and sc4s2cg,

My advice to you both is not to fret.

Just relax and do what ever it is that is in front of you to do.

One of the biggest mistakes christians make is that they run before they can walk and hit burn out. Take it easy, take it slow and familiarise yourselves with each step that you take in the Lord. Somewhere down the track, someone may need counsel and the Lord may bring to your mind the experiences that you went thru. Everything we go thru is beneficial to the Lords kingdom.

You have an inheritance in God that will be given to you both in his time. What you see in your parents and their relationship with God is already yours to have, but as I say, it will be given to you in Gods time. Why not spend as much time with your parents as you can? From that angle you can observe, learn and enjoy the presence of the Lord. Any doubts you have, will certainly disappear in time.

Greetings to you too Bolts

"One of the biggest mistakes christians make is that they run before they can walk and hit burn out."

I think thats me. I want the relationship now, not in 10 years, not in God's time. Perhaps I found it now, I just need to trust, like Kwiatek said. I think I already know my problem, I just need to force myself tosee it. Which, at the moment, it somehow just wont come!

LDStudent

Greetings SC. I have seen you at another site, which I shall not mention, for the sake of your privacy. Furthermore I will not reveal my identity over there; for the time being I am a closet Mormon.

Hey LDS, I think I know which site you're speaking of. May I know if we know each other from dialouge?

Bread_of_Life

Hey sc,

Thanks for the mention dude, big up to yourself.

I assume your referring to my mention of you in my post, well I had to. Your testimony completely changed my view of life, conversion, prayer.

In answer to your many questions:

Yeah.

I know He is in my heart and mind, sometimes my heart and mind wants to reject what my soul believes, that was one of those moments of total "out of it".

Not all the time in every way, but on the important points, yeah.

I sure hope so, that's where God is in my life.

Love yourself, and love other people. Do His will on earth.

I suppose it's the will part that is getting to me. What IS His will? How do I know? How do I find myself loving God if I love myself and others? I love everyone, including myself, I don't like being enemies with anyone on earth.

Oh believe you me, I have problems with Strobel as well, I was reading a Case for a Creator. Lot of nonsense in there too.

The answer is to have faith where the evidence is lacking.

I'm reading Philip Yancey "Finding God in Unexpected Places", he seems like a superb author. Strobel is good, I think, to introduce the public to Christ and the beginning of evidences, but, for me, it was just not strong enough. I know it is for others though, and I thank God so much for that, as my Bus Driver, of all people, was reading it. She seemed intruiged, happier, renewed, from then on. I bet God is using that book.

All that to say..I agree.

Good for you, looking for God is a good thing. And know what, this should make you happy - he's looking for you too! He arranges the oddest stuff to go on so that he can get to you. Read my testimony, it's somewhere on this board, you'll see the sorts of stuff he does. It's quite funky and out there.

Anyway, so long as you're looking, you'll find.

All the best, and chin up son

N

He is looking for me, that is the most awesome thing I ever heard! But how? And why me when there are others in need? I feel like its going to be a rough ride for some reason...

refugepsa91

http://www.worthyboards.com/index.php?showtopic=29310

Bread of Life's testimony....no searching required

Love and Blessings,

Angel

Thank you Angel, I have read his testimony when he was just writing it, and its worth to read it 5 times and more! I must confess, at first I thought this was a joke of his, then he wrote it and I was convinced. No offense Bread! It was a "natural" response after seeing others mock Christianity that way.

ted

Exactly!

This is, perhaps, the hardest thing to do when searching for reason. In our minds, we need proof of something to believe it, for the most part. There are several thousand exceptions to that rule, as evidenced by people that seem to want to fall for every little thing or idea, but mostly, we seek proof or evidence to support our assumptions.

With God, He goes almost to the exact opposite pole. He wants us to trust Him where we find no proof. "The evidence of things unseen".

It is so elementary, and so simple a concept, that we mess it up every time. Certainly, no rational man or woman would be satisfied with such a simple concept: Trust.

No, we go searching for lost trails and answers that we may never come to an understanding of, rather than put our simple trust in what who/ what He is.

He even flatly comes out and says that there are things which will remain secret (Deu 29:29), yet still, millions will search themselves to eternal damnation because they will never simply let themselves trust.

Trust.

It really is that simple.

Have a great day!

t.

Hey ted,

Yes, I already accepted that God will not be proven 102%, what I don't know how to do is that simple thing. Trust, love, faith. How? I'm getting the trust and faith thing down, I have to if I want to accept what God has done in my life, but love? My Pastor resigned last friday, after being the founder of our 15 year old church, and said amidst held-back tears that God wanted him to go to another church. This church is a lot bigger, and more lost, than ours is. I trust that this is Gods hand working, as I have prayed that He do His will to our church one night, I had to pray as the Holy Spirit prodded me to do so, but who am I to turn to when I need questions answered? Like the how to love question? I will be talking to my Youth Pastor, hopefully, see what he says on the subject. I should have talked to him when He wanted me to, a little earlier. Oh well.

Tubal Cain

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

- Buddha

[sc4s2cg]

ted

Great authors, but.....

In the meantime, we still have the matter of the original post and poster.

SC, any thoughts or developements since you last posted in here?

t.

Well, I have had a wonderful time yesterday with my little brother's at their elementary school carnival. One of them even won a cake for us! I also got a C in German, finally after all those other D exams, and 2 Cs in Computer Networking on my exams...Oh, you meant about the posts!

I have a lot of thinking to do, and I think God wants me to do something, that I don't know yet. We'll see.

Fiosh

Hey sc,

Nice to meet you. "How can I grow in my relationship?"....excellent question.

The fact that you even ask the question shows your spiritual maturity. God IS drawing you into a relationship. Someone made the point earlier that you are being called to a deeper level of relationship; I agree.

Hmm..does this mean that God wants me to grow in Him? So far I imgained Him watching, and looking out for when we pray, so that He might help. He longs for me?

Think about this, sc. Do you know people who seem to believe in God very "easily". They don't seem to have a single doubt or question; just seem to accept that God IS. Do you also notice that many of them are very "shallow" Christians...going thru the motions but not desiring a deep relationship?

Now that you mentioned it, they do! All the True Christians I've met have had something to struggle with. Just today, someone mentioned that a comment I told them was real encouraging, and commented that I seem to be on fire for God. I told them what I told you guys, they then said we all struggle with that. So, I got to thinking, and still am thinking, about that.

A person who goes thru doubt and searching, and perseveres, comes away with a deeper truth and a more intense love of God.

I noticed that as well. The more I struggle, the more I believe. The problem comes when everytime Im hit with a doubt or temptation, its twice as hard as the one before, and it comes just a couple days after succeedig or failing a particular temptation or doubt. Thats when I get frustrated.

Don't be fooled. Not one of the astute Christian brothers and sisters here have a perfect faith. None are satisfied with their relationship with Jesus Christ; or at least they shouldn't be. We should always strive for a deeper and more intimate friendship with Jesus. And there is no secret to achieving it:

1. Spend time learning about God in His word.

2. Spend time with God in prayer and silence.

3. Fast

4. Ask for the Holy Spirit

I try to read His word everyday, and I try to pray everyday, I ask for His Holy Spirit all the time to strengthen me, but I do not fast. I never got the concept. What do you do? What is the purpose? What is it? Prayer has lately become harder and harder for me, what is that the result of? At night I would rather go to sleep or read a book and listen to the radio than pray, and in the morning Id rather take my shower or sleep in. Why is that?

It takes commitment to make any relationship work.

Two of my favorite Scripture prayers are...

Mark 9:24 " I do believe, help my unbelief!"

I have prayed this prayer after reading one of either Strobel of Yancey's book, and the guy they were talking about or interviewing said he prays that everynight. I am following him, since I found that verse, it is always in my mind. Just like James 4:7, the second verse I have memorized besides John 3:16.

and

Psalm 51: 10-12 "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me.

Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.

Restore to me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit."

That one I'm saving away in my notes. Thank you.

And here's a promise to hold on to....

John 14: 13-17 [i'll let you look this one up]

13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Hmm..

sc, you are not "losing it". You are being asked to move to another level.

I don't understand, another level? I understand Sanctification, the falling, getting up, but allways moving, but what levels are there?

Go to your room. Lock your door. Go to your knees. Confess your sin. Praise God for who He is. Thank Him for your gift of faith. Ask Him, in Jesus' name, to fill you with the Holy Spirit.

Then make time each day to talk with Him.

He will answer.

Peace,

Fiosh

Thank you Fiosh for the reminder. Man, I need to be reminded of a lot of things!

shepherdsgrace

According to the book of Hebrews, without faith it is impossible to please him. The simple act of approaching his Word and his person with a step by step faith opens the door for the Holy Spirit to reveal God to us. We are the needy ones. Not God. God does not have to prove himself. But He is generous and kind and He does willingly reveal and illuminate himself to those who approach him even in the least faith. When you read a scripture, just say to yourself and to the Lord, "I believe" or "I accept" this truth and thank him for making it real to you. Your heart and mind will begin to be fed by the reality of the Lord.

God's blessings.......

I shall take your advice, it seems to me like a good one. Thank you!

God bless,

sc

[sc4s2cg]

sc4s2cg,

Jesus is here now? Well, if he's already here, why are you waiting on him to return?

Because right now, you don't think He's here. If you did, you'd be a believer, a worshiper. When He comes there will be no doubt left, we will be lifted up and "raptured", gone. He's here, but not all recognize Him, when He comes all will see.

God bless,

sc