Is This Man a Heretic?

[Catsmeow]

Why didn't you just refute the man's post, line upon line, precept upon precept?

Thank you, Blindseeker! This was my point ...we need to be ready to defend the gospel by any and all who infiltrate Christian boards.

This attack came against other boards ...we could be next.

But we need to be ready.

We need to be ready to refute, as Blindseeker says and according to scripture, line upon line, precept upon precept.

We need to be ready and prepared to guard against those who would challenge the authority of scripture.

I had hoped by introducing this topic people wouldn't recoil and hide but CHALLENGE this man's obscene claims against the authority of scripture.

We will always have people do this...always! There will always be heretics who deny the Truth. We need to be ready with our defense.

It was my hope that someone would have a defense against this man's claims....the answer isn't, "Oh, hide your eyes...don't look"...Our response is to blow his claims out of the water.

Any takers?

[Crusader4Christ]

I can refute a lot of the post Michael111 posted on Christianity.com. But, I'll have to view the post again.

[Crusader4Christ]

THE 'LEAVEN' OF THE APOSTLE PAUL:

Was the apostle Paul a false prophet? Did Paul preach 'another' gospel than that of Jesus Christ? Why wasn't Paul chosen as one of the original twelve, or chosen to replace the apostle that betrayed Christ? Why did Paul's 'conversion' result in blindness, when Christ performed miracles of restoring sight to many in the gospels? Why does Paul brazenly admit to things like:

(stealing) "I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service." II Cor 11:8

He robbed other churchs for wages to do them service. Would you not also give something to your fellow brother? Would you not take the shirt off your

back, and give it to someone else? Wouldn't you do your fellow brothers and

sisters service as well?

(boasting) "Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast." II Cor 11:18

(speaking NOT on behalf of Lord) "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting" II Cor 11:17

2 Corithians 11:17-19

"That which I speak, I speak not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this

confidence of boasting."

"Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will also glory."

"For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise."

This is showing that since they (the Corinthians) accept manyfoolish people amongst them, and Paul is hypothetically saying that he will boast also, and he can be acceptable to the,, because they think they are wise for accepting

them.

It's a hypothetical statement by Paul.

(trickery and deceit) "Yet, crafty fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery!" II Cor 12:16

Context shall we?

2 Corinthians 12:15-16

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved."

"But be it so, I did not burden you; nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you

with guile."

This doesn't mean Paul caught them by using guile. He was saying that he,

being crafty, caught them with guile. He was saying that they were of

guile, but he caught them by being crafty.

We've been warned before about "devils in disguise" as "angels of light"... Here is a scriptural look into the mind of a deceiver - via the pages of Corinthians I and II. The devil's in the details:

(Paul urges the Corinthians to imitate him, rather than Christ.)

"Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus, I became your father through the gospel. Therefore I urge you to imitate me." I Cor 4:15/16

1 Corinthians 4:15-16

"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."

What? All Paul is doing is being Christ-like in example. He hasn't said he was

God, or Jesus, now has he?

I shall add more on another post.

[Crusader4Christ]

(Paul decides to pass judgment on someone)

"And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just if I were present." I Cor 5:3

1 Corinthians 5:1-3

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."

"And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you."

"For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as

though I were present, concerning him that hath done so this deed,"

In the KJV, it says that he judged ( my Bible has an alternate meaning for this

word, determined) the person that did this deed of fornication. He missed the

context of the passage. He just took one verse out, and forgot the verses that

proceeded it. Nice job there.

(Paul decides to consult with Satan, not Jesus, concerning the man he passed judgment on)

"hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." I Cor 5:5

Paul is not consulting with Satan? Where the heck does it say consult in there?

(Paul thinks he is better than anyone else)

"I wish that all men were as I am." I Cor 7:7

He missed a part of the verse in Corinthians 7:7. Did he leave it out on

purpose? I checked KJV, NASB, and NIV, and they all have this same verse.

And, if you read from verse 1-6, it talks about marriage. Paul wasn't saying

everyone should be like him in the way Michael111 is thinking. He's saying

that since he has never married, so should those who have never married.

Let's chech verse 7:7

1 Corinthians 7:7

"For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his

proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

It's amazing how he left that part of the verse out. Hmmm?

(Paul admits to injecting his own opinions into scripture)

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord):" I Cor 7:12

Out of context again. Whew!

(Paul, who is single, gives faulty advice on marriage)

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am" I Cor 7:8

"Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife." I Cor 7:27

For 1 Corinthians 7:8, he [Michael111] should look also at the verse ahead.

1 Corinthians 7:9

"But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to

burn."

This says that if they wanted to become unmarried like him, they can do so. If

not, they can marry. What's so faulty about this? Jesus never married either. He will be though, to the bridegroom in the Eternal Kingdom of God!

More coming on another post...

[Crusader4Christ]

(Paul advocates staying the same and not progressing forward)

"Each one should remain in the situation he was in when God called him." I Cor 7:20

1 Corinthians 7:20

"Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called."

All it says is that we should remain in our calling to the Lord. What's wrong with this?

(What does Paul have against marriage?)

"An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs:" I Cor 7:34

"But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world - how she can please her husband." I Cor 7:34

Paul has nothing against marriage. Where does it say anything about Paul hating marriage. A married woman is usually more concerned about the affairs

of the world and more concerned about pleasing her husband. I say usually.

Not all, but a good percentage.

(strange talk)

"In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is - and I think that I too have the spirit of God." I Cor 7:40

(Paul expects to make money off the gospel that Christ commanded to be preached freely)

"In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel." I Cor 9:14

Oh boy is this misunderstood.

1 Corinthians 9:14

"Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should

live of the gospel."

Does it say "earn their living off the gospel"? No it doesn't. It says they should

live of the gospel, which means to live by the gospel.

"If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a

material harvest from you?" I Cor 9:11

1 Corinthians 9:11

"If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?"

This has nothing to do with earning money.

(Paul loves the sin of pride)

"I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast." I Cor 9:15

Whole verse please. And out of context again.

1 Corinthians 9:14-16

"Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live by the gospel."

"But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void."

"For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!"

It says nothing here about Paul boasting or being full of pride, does it?

(Paul decrees that a hairstyle can keep you from being a good Christian)

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a discrace to him," I Cor 11:14

God maid women to have long hair, for a covering. We need not long hair, for

what is there to cover?

1 Corinthians 11:14-15

"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given

her for a covering."

Are not men born with short hair? Hint hint, nudge nudge. Women are born

with long hair as a covering. Men are born with short hair, for we have nothing

to cover.

(Paul even passes judgment on growling stomachs)

"If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment." I Cor 11:34

(Paul curses an entire people who may not have heard Jesus' gospel)

"If anyone does not love the lord - a curse be on him."

Where is the scriptural reference for this one?

More coming...

[Crusader4Christ]

PAUL DISTORTION OF THE WORD OF GOD:

Here is but one time that Paul mis-quoted scripture. In II Cor 6:2 Paul asserts that God said something that God didn't:

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of my salvation I helped you." II Cor 6:2

What Isaiah 49:8 REALLY says is:

This is what the Lord says: "In the time of my favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land and to reassign its desolate inheritances," Isaiah 49:8

Why did Paul lie, distort scripture? And how would any believer defend this as something "O.K."?

How did Paul distort scripture? Shall we check the Bible for these two verses?

2 Corinthians 6:2

2 "(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time

accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)"

Isaiah 48:9

2 "Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to casue to inherit the desolate heritages."

Distortion or altering in the text? I don't see any. Do you?

So that no one will accuse me of taking anything out of context - I will include surrounding passages in addition to referencing the chapter number and passage numbers for this next example:

"Since many are boasting in the way the world does, I too will boast." II Cor 11:18

---surrounding passages---

"In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool." II Cor 11:17

"You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!" II Cor 11:19

Here is Paul not only boasting as "the world does" - but expressing a "self-confident" attitude in this boasting! And then, shockingly, Paul confesses that what he says is not coming from the Lord. (who then is it coming from?) Then Paul admits that he is talking "as a fool"

A boasting, self-confident, self-proclaimed foolish talker who admits that he is not speaking godly wisdom?

This reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:2-3

2 Timothy 4:2-3

1 "Preach the Word: be instant in seaon, and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

2 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap themselves to teachers, having itching ears."

I mean, these verses remind me how those people just accepted this as truth

without even checking it out. Itching ears they had.

This man obviously has a motive to cause division and false doctrine to as many christians as possible. Satan at work? Oh yeah. We must pray to the Lord that He may stop this poster from continuing on with this false doctrine.

Please pray brothers and sisters.

God bless you all.

[Catsmeow]

C4C: You go, boy! Blindseeker would be proud of you! This is what he's talking about....

To challenge those who deny the truth of scripture line by line, precept by precept....and it seems you are up to the challenge, Grasshopper!

*( Remember the old 'Kung Fu' episodes? )

Now, instead of fleeing in fear, we stand ready in and out of season, prepared to take on the challenge of those who promote deception.

For one so young, C4C...you're getting a real workout in apologetics...!!!

Hats off to C4C! Salute!

[BlindSeeker]

:bg: :bg: :bg: :bg:

[Voice Of God]

You can dissagree, but that means nothing here. I spoke directed by God on this!

As long as the words of that post about the so called "The leaven of Paul" is here to read by all, deception can enter into those that are weak in their faith.

I was giving advice to remove "those words" because I was led by the Spirit of God to respond here!

INSTEAD OF AIMING OUR FOCUS ON WHAT THE DEVIL IS DOING, WE MUST DIRECT OUR MINDS AND HEARTS UPON WHAT GOD IS DOING!

Satan loves all the attention!

Whatever is TRUE

Whatever is HONORABLE

Whatever is RIGHT

Whatever is PURE

Whatever is LOVELY

Whatever is of GOOD REPORT

.....OUR MINDS SHOULD DWELL ON THESE THINGS!

I am having a problem with this...because if what YOU say is right, we should never discuss issues facing the Church.

In other words, any current issues facing the church should be avoided ! We should all put on smiley faces and pretend these issues don't exist? Right?

This is not at all about discussing or avoiding any issues...Discussing issue is totally alright!

It's about the fact that you took the direct words, that this man is passing around the internet "The leaven of Paul", which is FALSE DOCTRINE and you "Unknowingly" and "Unintentionally" PASSED IT AROUND ALSO. I know that you had every good and pure motive by doing so, but...

You took the direct words, "The leaven of Paul", that he started on other boards, then you posted it here, so now he doesn't even have to come to this board to post it because now you have did it for him!

See the deception?

I seen it immediately after I read it and The Spirit of God revealed how SOME that read this may be persuaded and become confused by the false teaching that is being passed on.

It is a spirit of "Deception" designed to subtly decieve the people that read it!

[Crusader4Christ]

VoG, if that's true, none of us have been deceived yet. Can't say if any that are not members on this board have been deceived, but one things for sure,

if we can refute this man's post, and people observe it, and compare it the scriptures, one less soul will be deceived. Do you get my drift?

God bless you brother.