Worthy News: Ford to cut 25,000-30,000 jobs, close 14 plants - AFP

[apothanein kerdos]

What about those of us who need unions though? Listen, as I pointed out, it's either quit my job for my own self-interest (which is highly, highly, highly, highly unChristian) and leave these kids on their own, or stay at it getting abused by the system. It's easy to criticize those of a lower income when you're making six figures....and $70,000 in Washington DC, whilst not well off, is still pretty dang good.

[Marnie]

The problem here is that Bernie and Marnie are both admittedly well off, thus they've lost touch with the real world. "To make more you have to be worth more" is NOT a Christian attitude to the economy. It's a Darwinian view, but certaintly not Christian. All jobs are are of close to equal worth.

What is your excuse when a person with a college education is making $8 an hour at a fast food resturant because it's the only job available? Give mea break, you people are so far away from reality it's not even funny.

A job is worth what the market thinks it's worth, you know that. Unfortuantely, society has warped values. I teach Autistic kids ASL in my spare time ( ) and I see the workers that get paid minimum wage working 10 and 12 hours a day with those kids. Now to me, what they do is worth far more than what they are paid. Then I see some grunt chasing a pigskin who can't put two words together and make sense, getting paid millions and millions. Talk about backwards! But it's a problem with values, and until people get their values straight, all you can do is make a way to survive.

By the way, thanks for the compliment, AK. I guess I am well off, and I worked hard to get here. Thanks for noticing. Oh yeah, my degree is in Criminal Justice...which has nothing to do with what I do now.

[apothanein kerdos]

The problem here is that Bernie and Marnie are both admittedly well off, thus they've lost touch with the real world. "To make more you have to be worth more" is NOT a Christian attitude to the economy. It's a Darwinian view, but certaintly not Christian. All jobs are are of close to equal worth.

What is your excuse when a person with a college education is making $8 an hour at a fast food resturant because it's the only job available? Give mea break, you people are so far away from reality it's not even funny.

A job is worth what the market thinks it's worth, you know that. Unfortuantely, society has warped values. I teach Autistic kids ASL in my spare time ( ) and I see the workers that get paid minimum wage working 10 and 12 hours a day with those kids. Now to me, what they do is worth far more than what they are paid. Then I see some grunt chasing a pigskin who can't put two words together and make sense, getting paid millions and millions. Talk about backwards! But it's a problem with values, and until people get their values straight, all you can do is make a way to survive.

By the way, thanks for the compliment, AK. I guess I am well off, and I worked hard to get here. Thanks for noticing. Oh yeah, my degree is in Criminal Justice...which has nothing to do with what I do now.

The problem is that you're anti-unions...and unions often allow those of us who work 10 hours a day with these kids (I've been known to put in 12-16 hours....half of which cannot be recorded due to state law) to fight for higher wages and hopefully shift society's paradigm. However, because people are anti-union, we are unable to even form one.

There is nothing wrong with being well off....not at all. However, don't ever let it skew your vision of the world.

[Kabowd]

If you want to make more, become worth more.

First, since when does what you earn determine your worth or vice versa? Secondly, if making more money is the most important thing (or even one of the most important things) in life then numerous people, countless numbers are wasting their lives.

On the contrary, we do not determine value of ourselves or our jobs based on how we are reimbursed for it. We discover the value and meaning when we seek to glorify God in all that we do. Whether it's flipping burgers for $6 per hour, being a cashier for $20,000 per year, or a doctor who makes six figures. The girl who makes your hamburger at McDonald's provides a service, and if she's using her abilities for God's glory she is "worth" just as much as the doctor who will treat your disease, though she'll make far less.

As AK stated, the mentality that you present runs completely contrary to the value system demonstrated in Scripture.

[apothanein kerdos]

If you want to make more, become worth more.

First, since when does what you earn determine your worth or vice versa? Secondly, if making more money is the most important thing (or even one of the most important things) in life then numerous people, countless numbers are wasting their lives.

On the contrary, we do not determine value of ourselves or our jobs based on how we are reimbursed for it. We discover the value and meaning when we seek to glorify God in all that we do. Whether it's flipping burgers for $6 per hour, being a cashier for $20,000 per year, or a doctor who makes six figures. The girl who makes your hamburger at McDonald's provides a service, and if she's using her abilities for God's glory she is "worth" just as much as the doctor who will treat your disease, though she'll make far less.

As AK stated, the mentality that you present runs completely contrary to the value system demonstrated in Scripture.

It is you sir, you complain that certian jobs are not paid enough. As you say, a persons value is not determined by how much money he or she makes. If you feel that it is Gods calling to flip burgers, then you live accordingly, not cry about how you can't make it on a burger flippers pay. If more money becomes your goal, then you need to train for a job that pays more than a fast food server. If not, be content with your wages.

Ford and GM have milked the trend as far as they can take it, the party is over.

As Christians though, we should fight for fair wages that provide a substantial standard of living. We shouldn't go, "Welp, you chose that job, it's your own dang fault." Instead, we should be along side that person crying out that they do need more money. We shoudl fight for fair wages...this is the Christian thing to do.

[RGR]

I, as a Christian, can also not sit idly by and watch companies do to their employees whatever they feel like doing. Yes, in some instances it may well be necessary to cut jobs and close plants to improve efficiency; I don't think anyone is denying that. However there are times when companies could do more.

For instance, last year anyone within the store in a supervisory position (catalog, floor, stockroom, office, and visual areas) were called in for a big meeting/telecast behind closed doors; very secretive type thing. We were informed of how the company was going to be making changes, under the guise of "better customer service." First thing was they were cutting out the positions of office manager and stockroom manager; those positions would now become two separate positions each, filled by two part time people. Thankfully for our stockroom manager one of our two sales floor supervisors was retiring, which opened up a position for me to be promoted to, and she took my position as Catalog Supervisor so as not to lose her hours and pay. We already had one person, a person with close to 30 years behind them, have their position deleted (though she still did the exact same job, btw!) and take a cut of $2 an hour! The company was going to go so far as to say that if you lost your full-time position, they would not allow you to work "part-time" in another position to keep your benefits!!!!!!!!!! The managers of the smaller stores complained enough to stop that change, at least temporarily.

We're already shorthanded as it is and it's by design of the company. The times used to be that we had a person for every department plus supervisors for each department. Now they keep two people in the stockroom to do stocking, and they keep usually 1 or 2 people at the cash registers to wait on people. God forbid that a customer needs help in a department, lol! It was so bad during Christmas rush that I was having to help check out people, I'd get a call on the radio to come to the other cash register for customer service, I'd have to excuse myself and then go take care of that situation. Bless Pat's heart (our Catalog Supervisor), she had came into shop and she wound up helping check out and helping me get change when associates needed money! I mean, it's ridiculous.

I've complained many times about not having enough help to do stuff; I get this speech of working smarter and not harder. I'm told that to stock shoes (which is one of several dpt's I'm in charge of) to pull whoever is working in Catalog and have them come out and help me! However, anytime that they get 2 inches away from the Catalog desk, our manager yelps at them to stay close to Catalog, lol!

Pray for me, btw! I have applied for another with the State of Missouri for the Dept. of Human Services and I took my test with them and scored an 89.2. Please pray that something will come open there!!!!!

[apothanein kerdos]

I will definately pray for you.

I also encourage everyone to read "Total Truth" by Nancy Pearcey....the reason is it really opens us up to how a business should be run Biblically.

[ted]

Hey, pretty slick comment there. Now, let's see. I lost my job in government, where I was making in the low 70's. When you live in DC, that's not considered well-off. Plus, I had to pay for my own health care and pension. I lost my job due to an "accident" which most everybody here knows about. Now, who, I wonder would hire a woman in her late 20's, who can't walk, and can't talk? Hmmmm....how about NOBODY??

So...today, 4 years later, I am physically recovered from my accident, although I am mute. Today, I am self employed and I earn in the 6 figures, even though I cannot speak a word. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, Most High, gave me this job. I went out and created it. I saw a need in the publishing industry and filled it. I didn't want to be on welfare and I didn't want SSI or whatever. At 32, I am probably better off than some, and not as well off as others. My point, Almost High, is that in America....anything is possible if you put forth an effort and get off your assets and stop crying the blues about how unfair the system is. You know, it is unfair. Everyday somebody gets something somebody else wants. But life (and the economy) is not a zero sum game. And if I could make it, believe me anybody can. All it takes is determination, faith in yourself, faith in people and most of all, faith in G-d. I couldn't have made it without Him and His strength.

Forgive me, and I do apologize if I offend anybody. But people, we are blessed to be in a great country (not perfect, but great). What makes this country great is NOT who is in the White House or who your union boss is. Greatness comes from within. I for one want to take advantage of the freedoms we have in America and make it work for me, so I can in turn bless others.

Very well spoken!

People, when we fall on our knees and claim that we are stuck, then we are stuck without question.

One of the things that made this country great was the willingness of past generations to:

1. Do what they had to do, regardless of their situations.

2. Be willing to change the way they had to do things by hard work, innovation, and a willingness to make a difference for themselves and their families.

Without question, there is a reluctance of major corporations to pay decent wages to their workers. It's one reason why they are successful. They pay little, and gain much. Retail companies, such as JC Penny's, work within this model well. They buy their stuff cheap, lower their overhead, and pay the minimum that they can get away with. It's how they make their money. It's the nature of the beast, and it's a beast which we, in this country, accept as part of a free market society.

Unions have had their place, but are sadly waning in influence and need right now. There seems to be no middle ground when dealing with them. They ask for everything until the price of dealing with them takes a company down. Not only do they risk everything from worker's jobs, but they threaten the very existence of the company in the first place. By demanding such things as free insurance, higher wages, etc, they are forced to pay out so much, that the company is in the tank, and everyone loses.

I've been a part of several, and I can help it, I'll never deal with them again.

Now, to call someone who has taken themselves out of the cellar and made some improvements in their lives "out of touch" is ridiculous. I started out with literally nothing, and have lived most of my childhood and adult with as much. It wasn't until just the past couple of years that I have actually made it to a point where I am not pawning things and wondering where my next tank of gas is coming from. Actually, I'm not there yet, but almost.

But, if there is ever a moment in time when I can look back and wonder just how I did it (unlike today, where I still wonder how I am going to make it), then I will know that it all came from two things- The providence of God, and my own hard work.

I won't list the number of worthless little jobs I've had in my life, but the number is high. Each one left me wondering just how I survived it, and each one taught me something which I could apply to the next one, whether it be in courage, content, or character.

Today, I just found out that I will be taking over a job that I didn't think I would be getting for another 10 years or so. It's funny, but when I trust God, he always leads me where I should be.

It took a while to learn that, but i'm getting there. To sit around whining about where we are in life simply means that we are not doing enough to better our situations.

If you are not making enough GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Yeah, I know it's tough with families, kids, no training, etc. These are things that we can get over, though, as seen hundreds of thousands of times each year. I'm living proof of the fact that you may just have to inconvenience yourself if you want to make some changes.

Marnie has told a story here which is to be commended, IMO. She could have taken another route, but she chose to drive on and not rest on the theory that we cannot get ahead in life because of someone else's actions. What other inspiration do we need? If we are able bodied, and half-way intelligent, then there is hope that we can better our own situations.

What we cannot do, though, is sit around and stew in our own pitiful existence, and wonder when lawyers or governments are going to come to our rescue. History shows that they will not, and if they try, they will mess it up every time.

Innovators, people with the drive to better their existence, have never sat around hoping for better. They have, instead, went out and made a difference. When we get off of this "help us, Mr. Congressman" mentality, things might get a little better in this country. If not, we are doomed to what they feed us.

Because a person makes a certain amount of money now, doesn't mean they have lost touch with reality, it just means they have decided not to make less, and went out and found a way to do it. It is what made this country great in the past, and what will take this country out of the pit it is in in the future.

I'm trying to think of another person who would have more reason to give up and just try to live off the system than she, but I can't. Instead, she decided to forge ahead anyway, and find a way. This is something which should be applauded in this country, but yet, some still find fault in it.

What a shame.

If someone's situation is down, find a way to pick yourself up. Yeah, you may have to move around, you may have to work long hours, you may have to swallow your pride a little, and you may have to work in jobs you would rather not, but if you are sitting around waiting for someone else to make a difference for you, than you have lost already.

May the Lord help us and show us how to rely on Him for these answers.

t.

PS- You can always join the military in some form or fashion. We kinda need the people these days.

[RGR]

I'm too old for the military, lol! The Air Force actually turned me down as a teen because of my eyesight (it was 20/40 or so at the time w/o glasses). Then later the Navy came calling, lol! Try as I might I could not get this guy to take no for an answer (told him I had bad eyes, bad back, etc.) and when he finally wouldn't give up, I told him that if I joined the military, it would be the Air Force, lol! He hung up in a hurry!

[apothanein kerdos]

If you want to make more, become worth more.

First, since when does what you earn determine your worth or vice versa? Secondly, if making more money is the most important thing (or even one of the most important things) in life then numerous people, countless numbers are wasting their lives.

On the contrary, we do not determine value of ourselves or our jobs based on how we are reimbursed for it. We discover the value and meaning when we seek to glorify God in all that we do. Whether it's flipping burgers for $6 per hour, being a cashier for $20,000 per year, or a doctor who makes six figures. The girl who makes your hamburger at McDonald's provides a service, and if she's using her abilities for God's glory she is "worth" just as much as the doctor who will treat your disease, though she'll make far less.

As AK stated, the mentality that you present runs completely contrary to the value system demonstrated in Scripture.

It is you sir, you complain that certian jobs are not paid enough. As you say, a persons value is not determined by how much money he or she makes. If you feel that it is Gods calling to flip burgers, then you live accordingly, not cry about how you can't make it on a burger flippers pay. If more money becomes your goal, then you need to train for a job that pays more than a fast food server. If not, be content with your wages.

Ford and GM have milked the trend as far as they can take it, the party is over.

As Christians though, we should fight for fair wages that provide a substantial standard of living. We shouldn't go, "Welp, you chose that job, it's your own dang fault." Instead, we should be along side that person crying out that they do need more money. We shoudl fight for fair wages...this is the Christian thing to do.

What is fair? You simply cannot expect to have a 3 bedroom house and two cars in the garage by flipping burgers

Why not? What is wrong with someone "flippin" burgers for 10 hours a day, having to leave their children at home because the job market is closed and they couldn't afford college, making a decent living? Why is that so wrong? You may want to escape the Satanic bonds of Capitalism for a bit and explore the Biblical response to this.