It's Nonsense!

[Micah68]

Dear Marnie,

I just want to point something out in the hopes that it may help. Just because some of us disagree with you does not mean that we are uneducated or are lacking in some manner or form. God has created us all to show some different quality of His life. As the Scriptures say, if we were all an ear in God's body, who would do the seeing? We cannot all be like you. Therefore, instead of putting people down by saying something like 'you people,' wouldn't it be nicer to simply state your point of view and then discuss it when someone comes up with a different idea? Wouldn't it make people feel more comfortable to tell us their opinions if we were to just disagree without ridiculing their ideas? Or what about even trying to see things from their perspective? That would a challenge for us but perhaps we'd learn a thing or two.

Personally, nothing I've seen here has caused me to change the opinion that I stated earlier in this thread.

[Smalcald]

Well the earth is heating up; there are very few scientists who disagree with that. This heating will indeed, if it proceeds as it has (maybe it won't proceed, maybe the models are wrong), but if it does, it will have large consequences for our country and the world. Is global warming totally caused by what human beings are doing? There is evidence that we are contributing to it, but it could also be happening for other reasons, even here though the scientific consensus is that we are contributing to it in a large way.

But the bottom line is, we know that putting pollutants into the air is not healthy, we know that regardless of when Florida goes under water, so why not try to reduce polluting the environment? Why not work towards that goal? God gave us this planet and yes He will come and take it back, but until then is it really the right thing to do to simply destroy the planet in the future because we want what we want now?

I will say though that the US has done better than Europe in that regards. We have stricter environmental regulations than Europe does, which is why we have seen so many of our threatened species return, why we have increased not decreased the amount of forest and wetlands we have in the US. It is also the reason our cars don't get the mileage that European cars do, because our air pollution standards are stricter than in Europe. I have been to Europe many times, I don't see any sort of environmental paradise at all we are doing better in that area, how many bears, wolves, bison and eagles are running around Europe today? We have seen increases of these species all over the US to the point we can allow hunting of them (with the exception of eagles).

Where the US has been slack is in our regulation of the energy sector, particular coal fired electrical plants and in our overall energy use. I think we should re-look at nuclear energy and move toward a larger federal gas tax. Gas is still cheap, as long as gas is cheap we won't change our behavior, and for good reason.

[apothanein kerdos]

http://www.junkscience.com/news/robinson.htm

The Politically Incorrect Guide To Science, (Washington DC, Regnery, 2005). See chapter One on the myth of global warmimng.

http://a1m.org/page.php?page=template1.php...8c0137f0affb226

http://www.globalwarming.org/

http://www.junkscience.com/july04/Daily_Mail-Bellamy.htm

http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba230.html

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm <<Great site.

Y'all need to step back and get educated. Stop letting the environuts scare you. Dont you people have enough real problems to worry about? I started this thread to see how long it would take them start peddling their fear. Didnt take long.

The problem is these deny empirical facts. The first one talks about how we will enjoy an enviroment in the future that has more plants and more animal life. Problem with that; animal life is decreasing and so is our plant life. The national parks are not nearly as big as they used to be and the trees, as well as glaciers, are slowly going away in these areas.

The third one states that Calvin held a view that God controled the enviroment. Calvin also believed that God created evil and predestined evil acts....are we to follow that as well? The fact is the Bible calls us to be responsible to this earth...what we have been doing is destroying it.

The fourth one is absolutely absurd in that it looks solely to economic reasons for denying Global warming. Yeah...trust someone who puts money first.

Your fifth one is the best of them all. Dr. Bellamy actually wrote a letter to The Sunday Times on May 29, 2005 stating that his previous beliefs about glaciers growing were provably wrong...as were some of his other claims. He also announced he was backing out of the debate. Fact is, your author that you proudly present is also the founder of the Conservation Foundation due to pollution in the enviroment caused by big industry. In other words, not only is the source you use no longer considered a valid voice in the debate (he withdrew), but even moreso his entire position disagrees with you.

Your sixth site is from a libertarian site, which should disqualify it immediately. Anything that calls for government action, they'll immediately try and discredit. In fact, their "myth #1" discredits them immediately.

Leaders of one of the nation's top scientific organizations issued a new warning this week that human activities -- most notably the greenhouse gas emissions from power plants and other industries -- are warming Earth's climate at a faster rate than ever.

The statement came from the 28-member council of the American Geophysical Union, whose 41,000 members include more than 10,000 experts on the planet's atmosphere and changing climate.

Source

The National Climate Data Center (NCDC) has maintained global average monthly and annual records of combined land and ocean surface temperatures since 1880, the earliest year for which reliable instrumental records were available worldwide. Based on NCDC data, nine of the top 10 warmest years globally have occurred since 1995. Adding to the evidence of direct temperature measurements, multiple studies by independent teams of researchers indicate that, across the Northern Hemisphere, the 1990s were likely the warmest decade of the past millennium-and possibly the past 2,000 years.

The last site is from an alarmist who says that Global Warming is only a method to control people. Give me a break. Facts are in play on this one.

As for getting "educated" and being "scared" by environuts...I would submit that you need a good education. You have put your political beliefs ahead of your faith once again. Marnie....who is Jesus to you? I have to ask that because you seem to ignore the fact we are to care for the enviroment (as per instruction by God...you know who He is right?) and you're sitting here giving us sites going, "But that will hurt our money intake." So what?

As for letting environuts scare me, I once again point back to my previous post:

I live in a city where factories are near our river....there have been five times in the last ten years we have been told to stay away from the river because the pollution ammounts were simply too high. I have lived in other cities where you couldn't see the skyline, the trees were darker (and dying), and people had more asthma per capita than rural communities because of the pollution. Even if we are not running out of oil, even if there is no global warming, the fact remains that oil is a highy pollutant and we, as Christians who realize our stewardship over creation, need to find alternatives that are cleaner.

Get outside of your political bubble for a minute and look to the FACTS of pollution. Pollution is caused by materialistic gains and wants. Materialism is a belief that runs contrary to Christianity. By denying pollution and reforms against you, you as a so-called Christian, are pushing for the materialistic agenda. Does that not bother you? Here are some facts that are undeniable:

Look to Mexico city...people are suffering because of pollution there.

Look to Taiwan and its increase in sickness due to pollution.

Read about how we're killing God's creation without shedding a tear.

Do I need to provide more poof? To deny pollution caused by industry or human carelessness is to deny facts. To reject laws that restrict pollution is to support anti-Biblical materialism.

Stop putting your politics before your God.

[Micah68]

Very good points. I believe God put us here to take care of His world. Originally, he put Adam and Eve in the garden to take care of it. If they had trampled it and polluted it, wouldn't we be aghast? Well, we've done the same thing and the earth is rebelling against us now. The earth has become our own punishment. The only way to get out of it is to stop sinning and take care of each other and the earth. If we truly love God, we won't wreck what He created.

[apothanein kerdos]

Very good points. I believe God put us here to take care of His world. Originally, he put Adam and Eve in the garden to take care of it. If they had trampled it and polluted it, wouldn't we be aghast? Well, we've done the same thing and the earth is rebelling against us now. The earth has become our own punishment. The only way to get out of it is to stop sinning and take care of each other and the earth. If we truly love God, we won't wreck what He created.

Exactly. Basically, we've crapped in our space suit and trying to deny it.

Fact is, we're here with a responsibility to God to take care of what He created....we simply cannot support polluting methods or deny the facts. I mean, when we have actual facts that link pollution and human death....how in the world can we deny it? The only reason a person would deny pollution is if they worshiped money.

[irishcowboy]

exactly....

if we want our lands healed.... then we must do as the Lord has told us to do..... we must repent of our sin and turn towards the Lord, leaving our old ways behind us.....

this is a condition..... it is up to us..... God has already done His part, it is up to us to do our part.... and if.. thats right...... IF........ we do our part, then the Lord will Heal our lands......

mike

I am just curious why Christians take OT prophecy given specifically to OT Jews and apply to today? I notice many here do that.

Yeah, but if stick around long enough, you will notice the selectivity with which they employ such applications.

let me ask you this,

when Christ died and rose from the grave, what did that do for us????

what was given to us upon His assention?

what does His Grace do for those that not only believe upon Him but follow His lead? that remain in Him???

were we not restored to full citizenship? were we not received into the Royal Family? ( some call it adoption, but the term used then is not how we use it now, this was a major event in a persons life, the adoption that it ...... like now it is still a major ordeal, it means we do become family members with the Lord but there is alot more to it then just being a non-blood relative, it is indeed for those that are now BLOOD RELATIVES)

We lost dominion over this world when sin fell upon us, and we were born into sin. we gained dominion back when our sins were washed away, and we became new creatures....

the Laws and such from the old test, were not done away with, they still exist, the instructions that God gave us, has not changed..... not one little bit, God is the same now as He was then, His promises still stand, for all, just as they did 6000 years ago, 4000 2000 and even 6 years ago, they still stand today....

there have been new promises made since Eden, and those promises still stand. God has not ever gone back on His word, not even once.... God has never failed us, it is us that fail us and it is us that fail God....

God promised that if ( conditional , on our part...... IF WE ).... do as we are told, He will.... ( done deal ) do what He has said.....

every thing God has said He stands behind.... even healing our lands.....

Israel is a prime example... when they followed God, they prospered, very well in deed..... when they did not follow God, they suffered..... even so much as to be a people with out a home for quite some time until 1948, which that time was also spoke about in the Word of God....

do you not believe that all that is written is true? and even Christ said He was not here to abolish the Law but to fulfill it...... no change in the old test promises, just more and better promises in the new....

what stood then, stands now......

mike

[irishcowboy]

If we want to get people to buy those little dinky cars maybe we should follow the lead of Europe. Last time I had someone in London check they were paying $3.28 cents a gallon in taxes. That has been quite a while ago when I checked. Lets see that would have made yesterdays fill up at $5.41 a gallon..... 24.6 gallons..... that would be $133.09. Yep that would really slow me down. That's my average electric bill for the month for each fill up.

That would be the ticket for most of us to move to higher milage dinky cars and to go less and do less.... It might help pay for the national debt for a while, until the economy unravelled and followed deadman's description.....

a five gallon can of Kerosine today is priced at 45 bucks and some odd cents...... that is over 9 bucks a gallon for kerosine..... grrrrrr....

gass here is 2.29 a gallon yet..... dont think it will be going down anytime soon....