Ovedya Posted March 2, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted March 2, 2006 And therefore he wants mass killing, terrorists and rapists! I get it now. Thanks. Nope. Humans want this. Humanity is sinful. This is why Jesus needed to come. To save us from that sinful nature we have. To reconcile us to God since we have sunk so low. So that we can be forgiven for our many sins. So that we can be transformed into a more Christ like image. If you are truly interested in understanding the Lord, why not stop the feistiness and ask questions, genuine questions. If you think humanity is sinful, then you need to change your surroundings because you are obviously running with a bad crowd. Everybody in my life experience are good and decent people. However, it may just be that that's what I choose to see in them. I'm sure if I chose to focus on everybody's shortcomings, I'd see them. God doesn't make junk. Have any of the "decent people" in your life ever once lied? Have any of them even once ever took the Lord's name in vain? If so, even once, then they have have sin. It doesn't matter how "good" they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted March 2, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 2, 2006 God's son Jesus apparently muddled up his jo a bit, seeing as a lot of the mass genocide in this world is attrbutable to Christians. You were not keeping her in the dark, but how is drinking bleach comaparable to knowledge? Ignorance is the real evil, not knowledge. Hello miketaba, drinking bleach it is comaprable to knowledge in this way. The child does not have the "knowledge" they are ignorant of this fact that it will indeed kill you if you drink it. The parent can leave the child ignorant of the "evil" that will befall the child if he drinks the bleach but it will not stop the "evil" from coming if the child drinks the bleach they will or could die for a fact if they drink enough of the stuff. God has said within his word, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" The knowledge you refer to in your previous posts that God kept us from in the garden of Eden by not letting us eat from the tree of "knowledge" of "good" and "evil". Well it is here in the garden that God warned his children to stay away from the bleach to start with because they'll die if they partake of the fruit of that tree and not only would they die but their "eyes" would also be opened to the good and "evil". They only had knowledge of "Good" before the fall their world knew (had no knowledge) nothing but "Good" evil did not exist. Which is the "evil" you are speaking of being in this world. Adam and Eve didn't even have the knowledge that they were naked until their eyes were opened after the fall and then they "knew" (had knowledge) they were naked and even God himself wanted to know who it was who told them they were naked. So blaming God for keeping back the "knowledge of evil" from us was a good thing not a bad thing as you suggest. For even you yourself are describing a world in which you live in as being evil as you see with your own eyes the evils that are abounding (growing) more and more within the world around us. You should read Romans 5:12-21 Well it has been abounding more and more since the garden not because of God not at all it is not God's fault in which you blame. You should read James 1:16-18 also. But the true one to blame for the evil in this world is overlooked by those like yourself who hold the views you have towards the world in which you live in and are buying into the very same lie as Eve did in the garden as if God was keeping somekind of secret knowledge away from them and she was gullible enough to believe the serpents lie as she was tricked about the so- called forbidden hidden knowledge. In the which the knowledge of evil is a knowledge that the world could have done without and one day I will live with all the other saints in a place where there is only the knowledge of good one again. no more crying, dying, sorrow, pain, and no more tears no murders no whoremongering, no rapists, slanderers, none of the evils of this world will be in that city. Don't believe the serpents lies today "put the blame" where it truly lies. It is Satan who tricked and deceived the woman in the garden and Adam just flat out rebelled against God and the commandment he gave to him (to stay away from the bleach) to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Well thank God that through Jesus shed blood God rightened the wrong in the garden what was unjustified he justified made right again. It was not God but it is Satan in which you should be upset with for it is because of him the evil abounds in this world. But not only does evil reside in this world but also righteousness doth also abound here through Jesus Christ grace is also abounding and growing more and more as well. Ovedya has given you some good solid advice thus far and you should heed his counsel. God Bless Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted March 4, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2006 Alos, if he solved the inherent problem, why are there still problems? If the inherent problem is solved why does it seem to do so little? God at one time, promised us basically heaven on earth in the garden but man chose to allow sin to enter the world. Satan is allowed entrance and he is wreaking havoc here on earth. Now, God has adequately warned us of the trials, temptations and sin in this world and has given us all knowledge on how to combat this. We have free will not to, mind you. My main point is that there is another entity that also has a major influence in this earthly realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CellShade Posted March 4, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 397 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2006 God doesn't make junk. I totally agree with you! God doesn't make junk, we become junk because of sin. Now people, now you blame God for letting us have free will?!? That's just senseless, God gave us free will cause He knew our nature, and knew we would eventually protest for free will, also God doesn't want us as slaves, that's another reason He gives us free will, cause He loves us so much, enought to create us(us persons that normally deny Him and don't listen to what He says) He loves us enought to gives us a perfect life, but Does warn us not to do something, we do that thing, yet He still loves us enought to let us live, we still cotninue sinnig and yet He sends He's only Son to die for us in the Cross, yet even though when He came to earth the people hated Him and always called Him a liar. The only liars were us. He also rose again from the death in the third day in a Glorified and Holy Celestial Body. He did all this things for us, and after seing how humanity speaks about Him, He let's us live? He also still gives us free will? Also we don't die because God let us die, we die because we didn't let God keep us alive. He gave the invitation, most people don't accept it. It's your call, God wants to be in your life, but we as sinners don't want God in our hearts because we know we always do wrong and our ways are against him, so we rather stay the same then simply accept The One that loves us so much for Him to die for us sinners........ God's knocking the door to Heaven, God's home. A much better place then this earth. Now will you answer the door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Annatar: Bringer of Gifts Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 *sigh*... This question is probably the most common and most difficult objection ever brought against the Christian worldview. To answer the question, we have to go all the way back to the beginning: why did God make us in the first place? If he is all powerful, he didn't need to create human slaves just to do his bidding. The Bible seems to indicate that we are the centerpiece of a great plan to bring greater glory to God. A lot of people recoil at the thought that our chief purpose for existing is to bring glory to our Creator, but if he is what the Bible says he is, could there possibly be anyone more worthy of glory and honor? Now automatons, robots and slaves could never bring glory to anyone. No, to fulfill God's purpose, he had to create us with free will, the ability to think and act completely apart from any outside influence, God's included. That way we could choose him freely, without any better reason that because he is who he is -- the essence of power, love, and perfection. Of course, one of the inevitable by-products of our free-will was sin and corruption. After all, it would be impossible for us to choose the right thing if there wasn't also a wrong thing for us to choose -- and all of us will from time to time choose the wrong thing. Now the problem is that when a person chooses to do the wrong thing, like murdering an innocent person, God should be able to intervene and stop the crime. Isn't that what a "loving" God would do? The mistake in this way of thinking is that we have confused "love" for "kindness". What we expect from God is kindness: a big, kindly grandfather in the sky who will step in to save us from every problem we inflict upon ourselves. But the Bible never says that God is "kind". The Bible say's that God is "love". Now when parents discipline a bratty, disobedient child, whether with a stern talking-to or even a spanking, we don't just assume that the parents don't love their child. We recognize that the parents are trying to make their child a better person and teach him a valuable lesson. We would rather see that parents make efforts to improve their children, rather than just giving out candy and toys to temorarily cease their fighting and bickering. It is the same between us and God: He has already given us a stern talking-to (through the Bible and the prophets) and has done his best to improve us, to the extent of offering his Son to die on the cross for us. But God wants to make us loveable, and the only way to do that is to allow us to follow him of our own free will. If he interfered in our bickering and killing, he would be stripping us of our free will and would render the universe and our very existence pointless, because we could no longer fulfill his purpose. Well, I hope that was helpful to you. C.S. Lewis wrote an entire book on the subject, The Problem of Pain, which deals with the issue in-depth. If you've got the time to read, I would strongly recommend it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2006 But the Bible never says that God is "kind". The Bible say's that God is "love". . Neh 9:17 And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou [art] a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not. Psa 31:21 Blessed [be] the LORD: for he hath shewed me his marvellous kindness in a strong city. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Psa 117:2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD [endureth] for ever. Praise ye the LORD. Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, [was] not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou [art] a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Tts 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Annatar: Bringer of Gifts Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Blah blah blah... Read The Problem of Pain. You'll get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2006 Blah blah blah... Read The Problem of Pain. You'll get it. Blah, blah, blah............................Scripture??????????? I get it. I was trying to help you get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Annatar: Bringer of Gifts Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks a lot. I really, really, really, really appreciate that. I think what I meant was that the definition of God is closer to "love" than "kindness". You should still read The Problem of Pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted March 7, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks a lot. I really, really, really, really appreciate that. I think what I meant was that the definition of God is closer to "love" than "kindness". You should still read The Problem of Pain. Yet, that is not what you said. And..........your response to my posting of Scripture WAS "Blah, blah, blah". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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