Separation of Church and State

[50_Cent's_dog]

The problem with the popular interpritation is that it precludes the moral influence religion (namely Christianity) has in decission making as well. Without the moral influence on policy and decission making, the only guidelines that remain are the previous decissions themselves.

There is a such thing as secular morality. Secular moralities may not be identity to Christian moralities, but Christian moralities are not even identical to each other.

I agree with the essense of what you are saying. If there is no transcendent God, then there is nothing left for us to value but material idols (which are created and then are destroyed). But as long as there is some moral standards we all (people of every faith and those without faith) can agree to, there is common ground upon which we can build a just social order without the involvement of religious institutions or doctrines.

Sorry you guys both have me confused. I have no idea about what either of you are saying. I want God's blessing on America. He can not bless sin or morals that are not pleasing to him. How can God bless a country that is full of moraly good people but want nothing to do with God? To put it another way only a person who comes to faith in Christ is credited with righteousness. Their are many moraly good people that are not righteous in God 's sight because they have no faith in Christ. If America wants to continue to be blessed by God it needs to be led by the Holy Spirit. America needs biblical values to be righteous in Gods sight. What are good values apart from Biblical doctrines?

[irishcowboy]

It would do us all a bit of good to read the Constitution of the United States..... some for the first time in their life, and some to read it again......

not only the Constitution, but also the Declaration of Independance......

most people in the USA, have not even read the bill of rights......

if a person was to look around, knowing what the culture and the history of the USA was in the 1700's, they might finally realize, that the USA is now back where it began......

we did not learn from the mistakes of others, so we are making the same ones again.... and again, and again........

we are taxed beyond taxed, taxes on taxes even....

we have given up freedoms....

we are so beaten down, that we do not even know that it is illegal for a city to discriminate against a church that is trying to come into town.... whether it is Christian or not..... ILLEGAL.... including the town that i am currently in, right in the middle of the Bible Belt...

in the last three months, there have been two separate entities shot down ( trying to bring in a church into town. ) ..... little does the city know that they are about to meet up with the Federal Government as far as this goes..... Federal Law suite..... as well as state, and even civil...... ooooops.... they did not do their homework...... not just on one count, but on at least two......

we have a few people that confess they are Christians, but do not want Christianity furthered.... they do not want something that might stir up a can of worms either.... lol.....

the term Separation of Church and State, was used in a letter as a reply, from Jefferson to a Baptist Minister, when the Minister had querried Jefferson about the role the Government would have in the churchs.......

shoot, most of the public schools were founded by the churches.......

anyways.....

I challenge everyone to re-read the US Constitution ( if they have not already read it, then maybe read it for the first time).... as well as the Delcaration of Independance.....

mike

[50_Cent's_dog]

It would do us all a bit of good to read the Constitution of the United States..... some for the first time in their life, and some to read it again......

not only the Constitution, but also the Declaration of Independance......

most people in the USA, have not even read the bill of rights......

if a person was to look around, knowing what the culture and the history of the USA was in the 1700's, they might finally realize, that the USA is now back where it began......

we did not learn from the mistakes of others, so we are making the same ones again.... and again, and again........

we are taxed beyond taxed, taxes on taxes even....

we have given up freedoms....

we are so beaten down, that we do not even know that it is illegal for a city to discriminate against a church that is trying to come into town.... whether it is Christian or not..... ILLEGAL.... including the town that i am currently in, right in the middle of the Bible Belt...

in the last three months, there have been two separate entities shot down ( trying to bring in a church into town. ) ..... little does the city know that they are about to meet up with the Federal Government as far as this goes..... Federal Law suite..... as well as state, and even civil...... ooooops.... they did not do their homework...... not just on one count, but on at least two......

we have a few people that confess they are Christians, but do not want Christianity furthered.... they do not want something that might stir up a can of worms either.... lol.....

the term Separation of Church and State, was used in a letter as a reply, from Jefferson to a Baptist Minister, when the Minister had querried Jefferson about the role the Government would have in the churchs.......

shoot, most of the public schools were founded by the churches.......

anyways.....

I challenge everyone to re-read the US Constitution ( if they have not already read it, then maybe read it for the first time).... as well as the Delcaration of Independance.....

mike

I have the first part of the Declaration of Independence in front of me. The ACLU and other atheists would be squirming if someone read it to them. It mentions God and the Creator. The people would be yelling," Separation of Church and State!"

I will read the Constitution later. Thanks!

[Copper Scroll]

There is a such thing as secular morality. Secular moralities may not be identity to Christian moralities, but Christian moralities are not even identical to each other.

I agree with the essense of what you are saying. If there is no transcendent God, then there is nothing left for us to value but material idols (which are created and then are destroyed). But as long as there is some moral standards we all (people of every faith and those without faith) can agree to, there is common ground upon which we can build a just social order without the involvement of religious institutions or doctrines.

Sorry you guys both have me confused. I have no idea about what either of you are saying. I want God's blessing on America. He can not bless sin or morals that are not pleasing to him. How can God bless a country that is full of moraly good people but want nothing to do with God? To put it another way only a person who comes to faith in Christ is credited with righteousness. Their are many moraly good people that are not righteous in God 's sight because they have no faith in Christ. If America wants to continue to be blessed by God it needs to be led by the Holy Spirit. America needs biblical values to be righteous in Gods sight. What are good values apart from Biblical doctrines?

Good values in this context are values that we all can agree on regardless of cultural, religious, or ethnic background. What makes them "good" is the purpose they serve--giving us a common ground (regardless of cultural, religious, or ethnic background) upon which to build rational and just laws and a rational and just social order. If we all can agree on general principles according to which people should conduct themselves, we can live together.

On the topic of God blessing America: Your guess that God won't bless the whole country because of its non-Christian population or because of its secular government is not reason enough to mix religious doctrine and government policy. One of the principles this country was founded on was religious freedom. The religion can't be free from the government if the government is not free from the religion.

[50_Cent's_dog]

There is a such thing as secular morality. Secular moralities may not be identity to Christian moralities, but Christian moralities are not even identical to each other.

I agree with the essense of what you are saying. If there is no transcendent God, then there is nothing left for us to value but material idols (which are created and then are destroyed). But as long as there is some moral standards we all (people of every faith and those without faith) can agree to, there is common ground upon which we can build a just social order without the involvement of religious institutions or doctrines.

Sorry you guys both have me confused. I have no idea about what either of you are saying. I want God's blessing on America. He can not bless sin or morals that are not pleasing to him. How can God bless a country that is full of moraly good people but want nothing to do with God? To put it another way only a person who comes to faith in Christ is credited with righteousness. Their are many moraly good people that are not righteous in God 's sight because they have no faith in Christ. If America wants to continue to be blessed by God it needs to be led by the Holy Spirit. America needs biblical values to be righteous in Gods sight. What are good values apart from Biblical doctrines?

Good values in this context are values that we all can agree on regardless of cultural, religious, or ethnic background. What makes them "good" is the purpose they serve--giving us a common ground (regardless of cultural, religious, or ethnic background) upon which to build rational and just laws and a rational and just social order. If we all can agree on general principles according to which people should conduct themselves, we can live together.

On the topic of God blessing America: Your guess that God won't bless the whole country because of its non-Christian population or because of its secular government is not reason enough to mix religious doctrine and government policy. One of the principles this country was founded on was religious freedom. The religion can't be free from the government if the government is not free from the religion.

I just want God to be involved in the decisions that our government makes. I want Him to be involved in our courts. I don't think that God is pleased with the Roe vs. Wade decision. Our country made many other ungodly decisions. How can God smile on us if we exclude Him from the decisions that we make. Keep religion out but include God.