The LAW's and our example of them

[Guest Cephas]

With you I think the differences between us may be more semantic than scriptural, we may both be trying to say very similiar things from different ways of speaking. If you will indulge me our pastor gave a story today that might help illustrate what I'm trying to say, better than version or scripture battles.

I will shorten it from how he told it, to save space

it's about a couple at their wedding. Seems the guests took up a collection for their honeymoon that amounted to around $12,000 in cash (I didn't make up the figure, it seems a lot to me too) and put it in a satchel for them. In the hurry to be off on the honeymoon, the satchel got put on top of the car, and they drove off without realizing it. Of course, it blew off some short distance down the road and when they got where they were going, it was lost to them. A Man, who had been unemployed for some time, found the satchel. The only identification was the couples first names and the obvious signs of wedding on it.

Now, from the Letter of the Law, the man would have been perfectly legal in keeping the money, as it wouldn't technically be stealing to keep such a hard to identify satchel. However, from a Spiritual point of view, the money belonged to the couple despite the difficulties involved in locating them and returning it, and the technicallites one could use to justify not doing the right thing. The Law of God, properly says that returning it is the Right thing to do (which the man did, before I forget that part). The "Commandments" given at Sinai would not have given that information, but the Right Knowledge was in the man's Heart from God.

Another way to illustrate would be coarse language. Why is it wrong? The Commandments and the "Law" don't say anything. It's not condemned in the Torah, But we know it's wrong, in our hearts, because it offends people, not because the words actually are forbidden or, of themselves, have power to hurt.

Another example would be the Commandment about Bearing False Witness. Today, we take it to mean don't lie, but Technically it's meaning is don't commit perjury as a witness against someone. It is the Spirit of the Law, not the Letter that tells us that Lying is wrong. God, speaking to us, through the Holy Spirit living in us.

That is why the Old ways were done away and replaced with the better way. Because the old, 'performance' rules cannot change the heart, but a changed heart will result in better performance. We live under the Spirit of the Law, not the letter of the Law that was given at Sinai. Jesus problems with the Pharisees was that they were Rules Lawyers, they loved to find lots of technicallities to avoid the intent of the Law, but that would still satisfy the letter of the law.

[Guest Cephas]

I don't wish to get on your bad side sir, but quite simply I've read enough of your posts to know that your displayed view of scripture leaves something to be desired. At least 3 statements of things that "Are not in the Bible" that anyone with even limited knowledge of scripture could easily find. Whether or not they truly display your knowledge is not important though and I would ask you to bear with me, as I'd rather keep this civil and cordial.

Butero and I have differing positions on this topic so far, and it will likely stay that way, but his responses are civil and respectful, so we can continue to have a decent debate, even if we never change one view. One or the other or both of us, may even come away with something we didn't know before, something that helps us in our walk with Jesus. I don't question his Christian status, nor does he seem to question mine. Nor do I impune his methods of study, or his beliefs, and I believe he is doing the same for me. I can do that with you too, if you wish it.

But for you to come off like your interpretations are the only valid ones, that your method of study is somehow better, is at the very least arrogant, and at the worst, bordering on blasphemous. Perhaps you can run up to Jesus at the 2nd coming and tell Him what scripture says and see if He agrees with you. As with all of us, you learned things from other humans, you are human and your interpretation is based on human fallacy and past exposure to other views. Your interpretations can only be perfect if you are perfect, and as a human you are not. Nor am I, and I recognize and accept that. You have no basis for questioning my methods of study, as you have no idea how I study. Were I of like mind to you, I could very well impune your methods too. How God speaks to us, how he guides us, is HIS business and HIS judgement, not some mere mortal who believes his is the only way.

The fact that the issue under discussion now has many proponents on both sides of it is enough evidence to show that Scripture can be read different ways and that no human interpretation is ever completely accurate, nor ever will be. Millions read those passages, yet come away with differing views. To accost someone else, and state that their reading, or study method or interpretation is wrong, because it differs with your understanding is again arrogant and potentially blasphemous.

If you wish to have a conversation, please keep it civil and constructive. Give your scriptures, thoughts, reasons, explain why you believe as you do, but don't attack others because they don't share your reasoning. God leads us all who believe in His Authority. He will lead us all to the Truth, if we are surrendered to him and not relying on our own power. That I have errors in my understandings will never be in doubt, but that is true of all believers until we are changed at the Resurrection.

I apologize for any offense given, but do ask that you please be courteous in your replies and that you remember that all walks with God are Lifetime walks of learning, not something done over night.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Cephas