Suicide

[eric]

Hi OC,

Thanks for answereing my post. It's always good to know when your posts have been acknowledged and replied to, even if they are agreed or disagreed with.

There has been a bit of cofusion here and I have just spent half an hour to get things straight and when I pressed the * review post* button, the whole shooting box disappeared and as it is now bed time I will have to respond tomorrow.

Have a nice day.....or night,

e.

[Arthur Durnan]

In suicide - self-murder - one seeks to become Master of their own fate, Captain of their own soul. Wrong! "Thou shalt do no murder!" still rings out from Exodus 20. Heaven is entered thru the blood of Jesus Christ, not via whether or not one has committed suicide. John 5:24. However, each one of us will be standing before the Lord Jesus - Romans 14:12 - to give an account our own lives including, one would well imagine, why the suicide took place. There will be embarrassment unlimited, yes?

Best to leave BOTH life & death in the hands of the Creator-God!! AMEN!!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[message]

Hi! nebula....

Thanks for answering my post....

I wrote it, in, more or less short sentances, because otherwise I cannot write notes..I have only just found out, that it is possible for me to write a shortened version, in this way..Praise The Lord Amen..And I do..Often...

Of course many details would have been left out..but still, I hope it is understandable to a point, that is..

Bless you nebula..for your concern about me...................

Let me just say, it has been well over 6 years,since I last tried to self distruct....

A doctor changed my pills..and I am now on the highest..you can go on these certain ones..

They break up circles of bad thoughts..which is what had happened....

Think I put somewhere on another post..That I had starved my self for a year almost..and when I went into hospital..I had lost over 4 1/2 stone in weight in a year.... I really just wanted to disappear..again, nothing about to die or death..

Being so underweight.. meant that my brain was not getting the nourishment.. that it so needed.. therefore I had no substance to fight things, back with, at all..

One of the Doctors..[i saw quite a few.. they were worried about me..]

Although one, of the Community Physicatric Nurses.. that used to come and see me during the week..Told me that there is a word to describe what I did..

As there are others whom have done the same ..WHEW! nice to know one is not alone isn't it..

It's called Para--Suicidal,.It's always good to have a title against whatever it is isn't it..

As for the voices, they were coming from me..and were part of my despair to myself..

After reading a lot of the posts...I really felt, that I had to put people straight.. and tell them ,'Hey! wait a moment..It really is an ILLNESS you know'..

Ones body, can get very sick, as we all know..Why do people get stuck, when ones head gets sick? I think perhaps because it has a 'Stigma' Attached..

Some times I blame films.. I know that they are trying to show us the truth..about so called Mental Hospital's........

did you ever see the film,'THE NUN'S STORY? with Audrey Hepburn..[My Favourite Actress.]

As part of her studies,she had to go and help the Patients.. in a so called 'Mad House'..have baths.. and when you saw these patients..being bathed, which was taken from how things used to be.,.they were in these long baths..the Baths had tops on them, so they couldn't get out..Goodness knows how long they were left in these baths..

Then in another scene..she had to go and get a patient to have a bath, and ended up have a toussel with her..I am sure that its things like that, which stick in the publics mind...

It is slowley, I think getting better acceptance...But it will take its time like everything else..

thanks for you concern and compassion nebula....

Nice to talk to you...

I just hope that it has given people some more understanding, of what this iLLness is really like...

May life treat you well...

God Bless You,

From message X+

[Tari]

Message hello, you are right about suicide being an illness. Usually this stems from severe depression. Mental and emotional traumas are sometimes the most common cause for this depression. In some cases, drug addiction or alcoholism play a role as well. Above all, there is nothing in this world that the Lord cannot heal a person from. I hope your doing much better now, and thanks for sharing this.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

OC, I hope u dont get run over and killed while ur on the phone telling someone that you're watching where youre going...that would be a trully pityful way to end up in hell, would it not?

You sound to me like someone beating up on the genuinely distressed to reconcile his own lack of faith in Jesus unconditional grace.

Elijah was guilty of suicide

Job was guilty of suicide

I have little doubt that some martyrs, perhaps even some of the apostles were guilty of suicide.

Just as the subject of this verse is guilty of adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her [substitute relevant sin here] hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In your position, I would hope they repented of their suicidal thoughts before they passed away.

I'd be glad to see the scriptures you lean on to support your views on unconfessed sin. I'm sure you will have plenty for me to chew away at and keep busy.

[nebula]

The case concerning the believers who commit suicide, The word is clear in regards to believers faults and failures we are to come to the Father and confess them if a believer dies in the case of suicide then their soul has been lost eternally as they had no more time left within this life to confess their sin which was murder of self.

Please show us this "clear" Scripture that states you will go to Hell if you have unconfessed sin in your life.

Suicide is like any other temptations that are common to man .

Aaaargh! It drives me nuts when I see attitudes like this.

Didn't you read what Message and I have said?

You make it sound so frivolous.

All living creatures have ingrained within the the desire to live - so much so that people have been known to do the most horrendous things in order to stay alive (i.e. a hiker who got his arm pinned by a falling boulder cut off his own forearm in order to get free and save his life).

Now you have someone who is in such a state that this desire, this drive to survive at all costs, is being silenced - and you call it "like any other temptation"?

Have you ever known hopelessness and despair in such a way that they compeltely permeate your whole life? Do you know what it is like to live with contiuous sharp pain 24/7 with no end in sight?

How can you treat this so frivolously?

And when a christian commits suicide they did not find the way of escape in Christ but instead gave into the temptation when the suicidal thoughts came they killed themselves as they thought within their own right it was the way of escape. But giving into the temptations was "Not" that way of escape that was provided for the believers. So the believers who give in a commit suicide are giving in to the tempations of the devil and not resisted his will upon them.

"Giving in to suicidal thoughts" - that is not what it is like. Having been through this struggle, you appear to me as a man on a high horse boasting of something he knows nothing of.

Your words are to me like Eliphaz' were to Job.

If I were in my depressive state at this time reading your words, you would drive me further away from seeking help from fellow Christians. words like that are so condemning to someone who is bleeding to death in their soul.

And I say this to all of you who are preaching in this way.

[50_Cent's_dog]

I just wanted to say that I am done debating OSAS. Because the Bible supports both sides of the arguement. It is just an impossible arguement to win because no one can be certain. I confess that I lied when I said that I am absolutly positive that I can not lose my salvation. I used to feel that way until I came to Worthyboards.

Anyway, my pastor said that he used to debate with other pastors about things in the Bible. Then he realized that he could not win because both sides of the argument have the Bible on their side. He said it is just nausiating. Sorry don't know how to spell it.

I guess we just have to be sure that we have received Jesus as Lord and Saviour by faith. Make every attempt to walk the straight and narrow. Hopefully God will accept us into heaven. I just am not happy being unsure of my faith and where it will lead me.

How can I tell others about Jesus if I am not positive of where I am going?

[Openly Curious]

OC, I hope u dont get run over and killed while ur on the phone telling someone that you're watching where youre going...that would be a trully pityful way to end up in hell, would it not?

You sound to me like someone beating up on the genuinely distressed to reconcile his own lack of faith in Jesus unconditional grace.

Elijah was guilty of suicide

Job was guilty of suicide

I have little doubt that some martyrs, perhaps even some of the apostles were guilty of suicide.

Just as the subject of this verse is guilty of adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her [substitute relevant sin here] hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In your position, I would hope they repented of their suicidal thoughts before they passed away.

I'd be glad to see the scriptures you lean on to support your views on unconfessed sin. I'm sure you will have plenty for me to chew away at and keep busy.

Hello NewPigrim,

I will not give you but a few scriptures to ponder and meditate upon because ye asked something from me so I'll give it to you. But I fear it will do you no good because you are closed minded to what I have to say. It's okay by me I'll still love you just the same and respect your right to your own opinion. For it was our opinions that this thread called for in the first place wasn't it. And for the record I don't believe I beat up anyone who was in distress if so could you tell me who it was I beat up

From the way I look at it my counsel would cause one to think before going through with killing themselves. And even if my beliefs are wrong in your view and opionion isn't just good logical sense to encorage someone not to commit suicide apart from doctrines.

In your view of looking at things it's almost like your saying go ahead and jump there is nothing you have to loose it's all secure. Well what if it is all secure as you say it is how does it save the persons life here on earth that is in distress.

I question if it is I who is beating up someone in distress for all I have done by my efforts is try to stop someone from loosing their life and their hope all the way around.

And it is in my faith that "God is a very Present Help In Times of Trouble" (Psalms 46:1) if we would but call on him and go to Him in our troubles and needs. Those who are suicidal are in trouble and are in need of God's help and guidance and we Christians ought to give them that message. That is my message and the hope I hold out to the distressed and that is Jesus is their answer.

John 15:3-6

vs 3-- "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you' (this verse shows us that the word Jesus taught makes us clean in the message he brought to mankind as this is also in Ephesians 5:26 referencing the church)

vs 4-5-"Abide in me and I in you As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself except it abide in the vine no more can ye except ye abide in me. (Several key words in this verse to the believers 1--they have to abide (stay) with Christ 2--Jesus has to be allowed to abide (stay) within the believers heart as we were commanded also to love God the Lord with all our heart, soul and mind (matthew 22:37) we are to let Jesus abide in our hearts by giving ourselves over to his will. 3--You as a Christian cannot bring forth fruit (good things) unless you stay (abide) in Jesus you can't bring forth relying on yourself or your own will. vs 5--"I am the vine ye are the branches He that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit for without me ye can do nothing. ( If you want to have abundance in God you have to stay with him and learn to rely on him because without Jesus ye can do nothing we got to as believers learn to put our all in his hands)

vs 6--"If a man abide not in me he is cast forth as a branch and is whithered and men gather them and cast them into the fire and they are burned" (Here is a warning to those who do not want to rely on God nor want to abide (stay) in right fellowship with Christ. Then to those believers who wish to depart from his side this picture is given as a warning to them. The picture being that of a branch is thrown on the ground and then over time that branch dies and someone comes and gathers the dead branches up and use them for firewood. So it is with your walk with God if you do not stay and decide to leave him then you will be as the branch that was cast out your spiritual walk and relationship with God with wither away til it is gone as the branch cast on the groud at the first was alive but then it slowing withered then was used for firewood).

vs 7--"If ye abide in me and my words abide in you ye shall ask what ye will and it shall be done unto you." (Within this verse is a blessed promise if we abide and do not depart in our relationship from Christ and if we'll let his words rule our hearts our souls and in our minds then if we do this we have confidence with God and we can approach him and present our needs before him and He Will Hear Us And give us what we need (1 John 3:18-24 which is the test of our belief). James 1:22

John 9:31--"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

James 4:17--"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (Is suicide wrong in your mind Newpigrim. Is suicide right in the eyes of God or do you not think that our heavenly Father has no feelings towards his hurting children at all who are in this desperate spot within their lives. If suicide is wrong then for a believer to commit the awful act of taking their own life then it is indeed a "sin" in the eyes of God. And as the verse above in John 9:31 tell us plainly they won't be heard. If one commits this sin of suicide and doesn't have time to come to true repentance before they slip out into eternity well it's to late.

And Newpigrim I hope you don't get run over either or killed on the phone no matter what your doing.

God Bless

Openly Curous

[Openly Curious]

The case concerning the believers who commit suicide, The word is clear in regards to believers faults and failures we are to come to the Father and confess them if a believer dies in the case of suicide then their soul has been lost eternally as they had no more time left within this life to confess their sin which was murder of self.

Please show us this "clear" Scripture that states you will go to Hell if you have unconfessed sin in your life.

Suicide is like any other temptations that are common to man .

Aaaargh! It drives me nuts when I see attitudes like this.

Didn't you read what Message and I have said?

You make it sound so frivolous.

All living creatures have ingrained within the the desire to live - so much so that people have been known to do the most horrendous things in order to stay alive (i.e. a hiker who got his arm pinned by a falling boulder cut off his own forearm in order to get free and save his life).

Now you have someone who is in such a state that this desire, this drive to survive at all costs, is being silenced - and you call it "like any other temptation"?

Have you ever known hopelessness and despair in such a way that they compeltely permeate your whole life? Do you know what it is like to live with contiuous sharp pain 24/7 with no end in sight?

How can you treat this so frivolously?

And when a christian commits suicide they did not find the way of escape in Christ but instead gave into the temptation when the suicidal thoughts came they killed themselves as they thought within their own right it was the way of escape. But giving into the temptations was "Not" that way of escape that was provided for the believers. So the believers who give in a commit suicide are giving in to the tempations of the devil and not resisted his will upon them.

"Giving in to suicidal thoughts" - that is not what it is like. Having been through this struggle, you appear to me as a man on a high horse boasting of something he knows nothing of.

Your words are to me like Eliphaz' were to Job.

If I were in my depressive state at this time reading your words, you would drive me further away from seeking help from fellow Christians. words like that are so condemning to someone who is bleeding to death in their soul.

And I say this to all of you who are preaching in this way.

Nebula,

I do not treat this frivolously at all as you say. But I hold out the message of hope to them that they can recieve help in Christ. It is a real shame that you cannot see that. But no matter what people are struggling with I know Christ and He alone is the answer and that is who I'll keep pointing them to.

God Bless

Openly Curious

[eric]

Openly curious, There have been so many posts on this thread since I started to reply that I had to scroll back to catch up,so first a quatation from you.

The thread started out with the question, would those who committed suicide go to hell even if they were believers. Now the subject from the start is dealing with non-believers who commit suicide as well as believers who commit suicide and regarding christians who commits suicide will they go to hell.

The only thing I have to use for the answers concerning this issue is the bible.

[/quote

I'm sorry I was only referring to believers, because if unbelievers die in their disbelief they will be condemned anyway. So what I was asking was, what has unconfessed sin have to do with suicide? If you (anyone)have been convicted by the H/S to the point of repenting of your sins and asked Christ into your life and received His forgiveness of your sins, then all the sin in your life is forgiven as promised, for all have been confessed, you don't pick and choose.

Of the people I mentioned who took their lives, they gave no indication that they were suicidal. and I'm sure that in the state of mind they were in, praying would be the last thing they would think of.

Now in my own case when I was contemplating ending my life, praying never occured to me because I was not yet saved, but Jesus made himself known to me by a miracle, (one day I might give my testimony) and in less than an hour He changed my life completely around.

I hope I've mad myself a little clearer this time.

in Him,

eric.