The Days of Noah

[traveller]

Hi guys! Dropping in for a quick note. You haven't gotten off topic by the church/poverty discussion. Look at Lot. We are becoming like Lot. He sat on a hill looking at the best land and so chose that for himself with no regard for anyone else. He moved into Sodom and in a short amount of time incorporated their paganism into his own lifestyle. (and family) We see how perverted he became when he offered up his own daughters to wicked men. God, not finding 10 innocent people ended up destroying Sodom. However, look at this:

Eze 16:48 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].

So, though Sodom was sexually perverted, God destroyed her for pride, self gratification and laziness. She did not feed her widows, nor clothe her needy. They laid outside the gates while the people inside ate, drank and made merry.

How easy it is to become conditioned by the world. To live according to their standards. To become cynical to the downtrodden and the hungry, homeless, poor. We see so much we "tune it out. " Just like Lot?

[Guest C.D. Light]

I would like to address the church stuff here. And I say this having been there. We so often have all these expectations of what a church should or should not be doing and when we do that we are still judging someone or something outside of ourselves. Gods call to us is on a personal level, we may go to a good church or a bad one. That has nothing to do with a personal calling from God. Again I say this as someone who thought in order to have that great relationship with my savior I had to go to the right church. For people who have a personal relationship with Christ it is put upon us to do whatever He calls us to do regardless of what the elders or whomever is doing. Your example is a good one and so I have a question. If you sitting in church next to that woman would you put the money in the plate and sit there and think why aren't we helping her or would you hand her the money? I am a single mother and once when my children were small a man came up to me and gave me a fifty dollar bill at christmas time. He had a hard time getting me to take it because I was self concious of my poverty. Let me say that more truthfully I was ashamed of it. He wouldn't take no for an answer and told me I was doing more for Him by accepting it then he was doing for me. Well almost 20 years later I don't know that mans name but I remember his face clearly. Looking back God answered my prayers that Christmas through an anonymous man who expected nothing in return. Also I would like to say here the giving does not have to be material, the greatest gift to give is the word of God in a way that others can understand it. Because all of the things here can bring comfort and a measure of pleasure here, but not one dime can buy a seat at the dinner table of the Lord. Alot of people out there are uncomfortable with the whole church thing, but not everyone gets saved in a church or by a pastor. We each have a personal responsibility to reach out to a broken world in any way that we can.

Love in Christ

Shilou

Shilou--An easy question, if you meant it for me.  I would bypass the offering plate, and put it directly into the woman's hands. It was STILL giving, wasnt it?

We have to remember that sometimes God TELLS people to give a certain amount to a certain person.  And we shouldnt pray for our needs, and then be picky about how God decides to answer us.  We shouldnt care if satan himself hands it to us in a dirty paper bag, cause it'll sure be clean onces it reaches the right hands.  

The right thing for you to have done back then was to simply accept it graciously and not to have taken it as an insult of sorts.  I believe the man meant  he got a bigger kick out of giving than receiving.

Yes, giving somebody the right Word is a great gift, but a hungry stomach receives it better, if it is first fed.  Any of us can get the Word anytime we want it, because we live in america where it is free.  But when a person has a dire need, then to meet that need at that moment is a more urgent need.  The "word" is not going to pay a heating bill before it gets shut off, or provide lunch money for kids for the last week of the month.  

"I would that you would prosper, and be in health, even (just as much as I want) as your soul prospereth".

This "word" tells us that God is just as concerned with all the other vital things in our lives, as he is with our soul prospering thru his word.

The Word is just the Word, but then we are to ACT UPON it, and faith without works is a DEAD faith.

Years ago I worked with a very dedicated christian lady. She never missed church.  She was telling me there was a man in their church who had a child that was seriously ill and she needed to be taken for treatment every day to a childrens hospital out of town.  So his wife had to use their one car to take the child to the hospital every day.  And this father had to get up extra early every day because he had to walk miles to get to work.  And that was the end of the story.

I was a new christian then, but now after all these years, I look back on that situation and I can not help but think what a bunch of screwballs this congregation and pastor were!

They KNEW this, and among them all, they couldnt come up with transportation for this man??????  (Back in those days, the 70's you could buy a decent running car for no  more than $500, maybe less!)  

Geeshhh

CD

[Guest C.D. Light]

I need to add something here about the falling away, each of us as christians know when we are in something like that. And sometimes what may appear to us that someone is falling away could be God strengthning that person through pain. It is my prayer that we can be there with loving kindness rather than judgement and wait with open arms until the Lord brings them back to us in His time not ours. God knows a persons heart and knows how to bring each of us to our knees and perhaps some of the lecturing and finger pointing are only getting in his way.

Love in Christ

Shilou

Shilou--Again, I dont think what you mentioned is "falling away".  Falling away refers to a person falling away from the true gospel, and going to "another gospel" .  

It has nothing to do with a person who has become disappointed in God, or with christianity.  Some call it "backsliding".  Not the same thing.

I also dont believe God strengthens us thru pain.  I dont think He is the one who gives us pain. And I dont believe we are to necessarily to leave that person alone in their pain.

Often, when a christian is going thru pain, it is because they dont know what they are supposed to do about it, or how to handle it.  

And from my experience, my biggest disappointment in christianity has come because it seems none of the seasoned christians around me KNEW what to do about it---but they OUGHT TO in many cases.

They were "full of the word" but were worthless to me.  There wasnt any "feet" to all that word, and they couldnt put it into action.  I guess that is one reason why I feel as I do, and am the way I am.  

I think there needs to be a balance between Word and Action; between christianity and real life.

We shouldnt get so holy, that we're no earthly good.  It takes both working together.

CD

[Guest C.D. Light]

You're right on target CD....hey, this is becoming a broken record!

Thanks for the kind words sis, but like many in the Body of CHRIST I've been blessed.

[OneAccord]

I love Wisdom's posts, you can always count on them being uplifting, and never have to cringe when you see his name on the reply! :inlove:

REgarding the church's distribution of the tithes and wealth, this one cuts me to the quick!  In Acts, at the very begining of the church everyone wass selling all they had and distributing to those who had need!  What a far ways we've come from that!  And the first conflict was over unequal distribution to the widows (the Hellenist widows getting overlooked).  The tithes were directly used to care for the sheep.  Now they are building basketball courts and payroll for church staff.  There should be no one lacking in a church body.  The pastor should be washing our feet (and we should be washing his!)  I think there is a falling away from the attitude of servant.  You guys are all getting me going with your posts, it is grievous to ponder....

[WISDOM]

You're right on target CD....hey, this is becoming a broken record!

Thanks for the kind words sis, but like many in the Body of CHRIST I've been blessed.

[WISDOM]

I love Wisdom's posts, you can always count on them being uplifting, and never have to cringe when you see his name on the reply! :inlove:

REgarding the church's distribution of the tithes and wealth, this one cuts me to the quick!

[Guest shilou]

CD I know you mean well and I take it in that light, but what you just did was instead of understanding the message you went on to find a way to correct and pick apart. Falling away doesn't mean this or that and God doesn't use pain. I don't want to debate the specifics of what a word means or how God refines each of us. What I would like to get across is simply this. The world is in terrible pain, mass amounts of humanity is living in darkness like in the days of Noah. Lets go get some of them and bring them home. Not by correcting them, or confusing them, but by loving them so much they can't do anything but wonder why. And by getting down on our knees and begging for Gods mercy. I'm not real interested in all the intellectuality of man anymore. I want to be beyond the veil, I want to see the face of God. I want to be able to give God my will and do whatever He requests of me. More than anything I want Him to say well done my faithful child. Like I mentioned somewhere an illiterate person is not going to understand all of that detail. But I can get on my knees with that person and the Holy Spirit can fill them up and they will know what it is all about. Like a child they can feel the gleeful joy of the love of Christ. This is just way to exciting.

May Christs love shine down upon us all

Shilou

[WISDOM]

I'm not real interested in all the intellectuality of man anymore. I want to be beyond the veil, I want to see the face of God. I want to be able to give God my will and do whatever He requests of me. More than anything I want Him to say well done my faithful child. Like I mentioned somewhere an illiterate person is not going to understand all of that detail. But I can get on my knees with that person and the Holy Spirit can fill them up and they will know what it is all about. Like a child they can feel the gleeful joy of the love of Christ. This is just way to exciting.

Shilou, Shilou, Shilou......You have arrived .... :thumb:

[WISDOM]

Shilou:

An extra added note.....After reading and responding to CD's post I'm quite sure she didn't mean anything negatively towards you (as you duly noted).

Personally, I feel a refreshness in reading all the posts of the two of you, and would encourage you to continue to be straightforward (with a touch of class) and Christian (not religiously Pharissee-like) in each and every one of your threads/post.  I enjoy realism in the threads, not someone trying to practice the "King's English".  GOD is real and good ALL the time!