Commentary: THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNIVERSE

[Matthitjah]

The Lord Bless you brother buck,

I have to encourage you for your raw emotion and zeal. Zeal will take you a long way, I know. However a calm patience will take you farther.

I wanted to ask, where in the example of Paul before Festus and Agrippa did Paul compromise the Truth of Gods Word. As he paid honor to them.

As far as readily detecting if water is polluted or not? I personally do not have that skill, unless I'm carrying a water testing kit or something. I was in no way impying that anyone was stupid. I really don't think that implying that someone was menatlly deficient as an example was called for either.

The fact of the matter is that not every Politician is out to get us. Some folks enter civil service with good in mind. Of course they quickly exit.

Paul obeyed the civil Gov't. but never compromised the Word of God.

If your boss asks you to perform a particular task and it isn't harmful in any way? Should you directly obey him or should you begin to question his motives?

Tribute in Strongs;

5411. phoros

Search for G5411 in KJVSL

joroV phoros for'-os

from 5342; a load (as borne), i.e. (figuratively) a tax (properly, an individual assessment on persons or property; whereas 5056 is usually a general toll on goods or travel):--tribute.

Custom;

5056. telos

Search for G5056 in KJVSL

teloV telos tel'-os

from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):--+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411.

See Greek 5411( Which is in fact the above Phoros)

Now in both cases it is a Tax or levy due the State.

Here is a good commentary from Family Bible Notes;

Ro 13:7

Their dues; what rightfully belongs to them. Tribute; taxes on real and personal estate. Custom; taxes on merchandise, and on foreigners. Fear--honor; pay to rulers and officers of government such respect as will conduce to the best discharge of their duties. If rulers transcend their just authority, neglect the objects for which they were appointed, and seek their own, not the good of the people--if they terrify the good, encourage the bad, and require men to commit sin--men are bound, in these things, to disobey them, and in all things to obey God. In no case are men to commit sin to accomplish any object whatever.

Here we see we are to respect those in authority over us renedering them the honor they are due. We are to obey them unless it causes us to sin. Giving them honor and respect will allow them to conduct their duties more easily. It also will as in the case of Paul. Open up doorways for our Good Witness to pay Tribute to the Higher Power. Thus possibly freeing even these men from the evil bonds in which they are captured and held captive.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke of this;

Mt

[JustinM]

The 10 Commandments set the basic foundation for all our laws. It is obvious that some laws should not be followed. Abortion should not be legal and most definitely should require unanimous consent from the mother and father of the baby if the mother's life is in danger. If a child under 18 gets pregnant, all abortion clinics must require parental notification. It is not right that a child can make that kind of a decision without her parents knowing about it.

We, as Christians, are really not supposed to dedicate our time to politics. Our job is to bring people to Christ, because we are ordered to not be a part of this world. We are supposed to be outcasts to society. Society is a manmade instrument and is not of God. We can go to abortion clinics and witness to the people working there and the women considering abortion, but we shouldn't picket and protest.

If every Pro-life or Christian would spend one day a week witnessing to those individuals, we would have a far greater impact on society than any politician could have.

We should not condemn anyone, that is not our place. Only God is qualified to do that. We need to fill in the role of DA for those people. We must represent them and speak for them and teach them that God is the way.

Of course, we will run into those that will ridicule us, hate us and deceive us. Sometimes it takes years of witnessing and teaching before we can bring 1 person to God. Satan loves that, because as long as we are focusing our energy on one person, there are many others slipping right through our fingers.

I think it is best we do what we can as Christians and not politicians.

[EricH]

The problem comes when we thing we can achieve lasting change by using the political system. Until the hearts of people are changed, kingdoms will not change. We cannot legislate a change in nature. As long as we understand the limits of the political proces, and don;t come to confuse our political alliances with our alliance to God, we are free to get involved as God leads

[buckthesystem]

First off Matthitjah, I must apologise for my badly worded statement about the water and the fishing. I didn't intend to imply that anyone was, or is, mentally deficient in any way and I'm sorry because it came across that way.

I just don't believe in seeing a sign put there by a government employee and initiated by a government bureaucrat and automatically obeying it without questioning the reasoning behind it. That sort of puts us in the category of a small child whose mother might say "no, you can't play in the sandpit, simply because I say so". Although as small children we might be able to have trust in our mother's motives (i.e. the cat might have made a mess in the sandpit) we cannot afford ever to have trust in government officials. And it is incredibly arrogant of them to assume that we are going to think "the government knows best" and that they do everything they do - including issuing orders - because they have our best interests at heart. This is almost never the case, and there are very rare occasions when somebody can say to us "you do that because I say so, but I am not going to tell you why" and their motives are genuine.

Sure, it is true that "some folks enter civil service with good in mind", I just have yet to meet or hear of any. You are absolutely right when you say "of course they quickly exit" - doesn't that prove the rule?

And Of course you're correct in saying "Paul obeyed the civil government but never compromised the word of God". This might have been pretty well possible in his day, but in subsequent centuries it has become almost impossible. How do you think Paul would have handled living in Europe in the 1930s? Would he have turned a blind eye to the "laws" coming out every other day progressively reducing Jews to "non-citizens"? (I.e. "Jews must surrender all firearms", "Jews may no longer hold driving licences", "Jews can no longer have pets", "Jews can no longer own any property" etc. etc.) And it is possible to obey civil gov't with regard to the laws on abortion when clearly that goes against God's word?

"If your boss asks you to perform a particular task and it isn't harmful in any way, should you directly obey him or should you begin to question his motives?". Of course I would directly obey my boss, this is because he has to get his own job done and his own job is to delegate others to do tasks and if we don't do things properly the company will not make enough money to pay our wages, so it would be stupid to refuse to carry out what he wants done. Also he has spent many, many years studying and working hard to get to be in the position he is in and I feel I can have sufficient trust in him to believe that his motives are almost 100% pure. However, petty gov't officials, government 'officials' of any kind or politicians ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT MY BOSS AND NEVER WILL BE and none has ever given me any reason to believe that I should trust them.

I realise that Christians should not dedicate their lives to politics and instead devote their time to bringing others to Christ, however I believe that we should not ignore the harm that politics does in society either, in fact I do believe that it is our duty to bring injustices to light. I am apolitical in the sense that I don't vote (mainly because I have realised the danger of being on a "gov't list", i.e. the "electoral role") but I don't consider myself to be a "law abiding citizen" and "putting my head in the noose", I don't go around stealing and killing or breaking any of the 10 commandments - but then that is not "obeying civil gov't, but obeying God. I do, however, "speed" (according to our news media "speeding" is the worst crime anyone can possibly commit, but who among you can honestly say that they never "speed"?). I don't wear my seat belt because I don't like the feeling of being "restrained" or "shackled" or having my movement restricted, my dog is not "registered", my car is "registered" but I resent greatly the fact that I feel I have given in to blackmail to do that, and I don't ever voluntarily fill out government forms or volunteer any information to government employees.

I do, however, write "letters to the editor" every other day because I feel that that if what we all should be doing. I believe that civil government is "of the devil" not "of God" and we all should do our best to keep a check on that or civil government might get the idea that their policies have our consent.

What use are we to Jesus if, as he said "we are the salt of the earth" but that salt has lost its savour? God gave us a brain, we should use it. So we are Christians, living in this world but being concerned about the next, this does not make us exempt from exposing injustices and fighting satan (satan often works through civil government) at "every turn".

God's law must always come first. We cannot ever compromise it or confuse it with what man demands of us, if there is a conflict (which there often is) we must always choose God.

I guess your view would depend very much on your definition of "we are to respect those in authority over us". I do not believe, at all, that God has put any civil government employees "in authority" over me. Do you? My view is that when Jesus asked someone to catch a fish where in it's mouth would be a coin to "pay tax" with, he was sort of "humouring" the civil rulers of the time. Sort of saying "let the baby have his bottle", "your ruler craves the obedience/opression of men, so humour him while you are both on the earth, I will sort it out in the hereafter". There is no way that I will believe that any other person on this earth has a "natural right of authority" over any other. Any natural right of authority is reserved for God alone, and we should never confuse that with nasty, sinister, stupid, greedy (etc. etc.) government "officials" or politicians having "authority" over us. The only "authority" they have is that which we choose to give them, and (in my opinion anyway) there is only room for one ruler or authority figure or lawmaker.

My opinion, ultra-cynical I do realise, but then it is a cynicism born of being able to (or thinking I can anyway) see how many people have died throughout the ages because they believed and trusted in "civil authority". But like every opinion, you can argue about it (argument is always healthy) and you certainly don't have to agree with it.

[buckthesystem]

BTW Thank you very much Matthitjah for your comments,but I must confess that I am not actually a "brother" at all, but female. Look at my profile, it is just government departments that I have a paranoia about giving information to, not websites.