SCIENCE!!!

[red77]

Grace to you,

So now you are not a God?

I know alot about evolution, everything I learned about it came from my 8th grade science teacher. Just about covers the subject.

Once again you assume that a Christian is a thick headed Neanderthal.

I did not evolve from an ape. I was made in the image of my Creator. This leaves me no excuse to act like an ape. It actually means that my life is worth more than an ameoba in a petri dish. It also leads me to the worldview that life is valuable and should not be cheapened.

There is no evolution going on with dogs. There is a selection process that can happen within the genus of that species however there has not been a whole new animal of a higher order Created. I also happen to know that the complex mechanical processes that it takes to have flight cannot have evolved. Neither can the eye have simply begun to allow light in without blinding an organism.

Yes, my children are already having evolution crammed down their throats by the Public education system. My daughter has already been told about the supposed evolving moths in England which again is merely a sham. Thank God she is well grounded in the Word. She was also told that a Communist was a Great American Patriot. Sigh!

Absolutism breeds Meglomaniacism in my opinion

Are you denying that you are absolutely an atheist?

I'm not denying that I absolutely believe the Word of God.

The only difference is that I am not here trying to disprove your Faith in science. Yet you are here trying to disprove my Faith and others in God. God has so Humbled me my friend, yet I recognize the mode of operation when I see it.

Your truth doens't have anything to do with my truth.

Allow me to correct you, It's not my Truth it's Gods Truth and it isn't relative nor open for debate as far as He is concerned.

God did not design evolution despite the claims of the Catholic Church. As well as the entire collection of Darwinian Scientists.

Here's the Truth and mind you it is Gods Word not mine;

Ge

[RGR]

Several Christians believe in evolution...............it only becomes some sort of heresy to do so if you take the garden of eden literally and a lot of christians dont..............I dont have a problem with it myself to be honest, there's no reason why evolution couldnt be God's handiwork as much as anything else.........just to clarify though evolution doesnt claim that humans evolved from Apes anyway...........!

I have a problem with the idea; the Bible is the true, unadulterated Word of the living God and to say that the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical or false is calling God a liar. The Bible also says that in 6 days God created the earth, not 6 periods of time, but in 6 days. Really shoots the idea of evolution in the foot IMO. Yes, I know that those who believe in evolution and/or are atheists will chide me for not accepting what science has to say, etc. but I will take the Bible first and science second when the two disagree!

Also, if I might add a thought, people keep referring to the Catholic church and what they believed about the sun revolving the earth, etc. First off, proving the world was round and that it revolved around the sun holds nothing contradictory toward the Bible; as a matter of fact, someone showed me a verse once that seemed to say the earth revolved around the sun. Second of all, I'm not Catholic and what they supported doesn't mean a hill of beans to me!

[red77]

Several Christians believe in evolution...............it only becomes some sort of heresy to do so if you take the garden of eden literally and a lot of christians dont..............I dont have a problem with it myself to be honest, there's no reason why evolution couldnt be God's handiwork as much as anything else.........just to clarify though evolution doesnt claim that humans evolved from Apes anyway...........!

I have a problem with the idea; the Bible is the true, unadulterated Word of the living God and to say that the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical or false is calling God a liar. The Bible also says that in 6 days God created the earth, not 6 periods of time, but in 6 days. Really shoots the idea of evolution in the foot IMO. Yes, I know that those who believe in evolution and/or are atheists will chide me for not accepting what science has to say, etc. but I will take the Bible first and science second when the two disagree!

Also, if I might add a thought, people keep referring to the Catholic church and what they believed about the sun revolving the earth, etc. First off, proving the world was round and that it revolved around the sun holds nothing contradictory toward the Bible; as a matter of fact, someone showed me a verse once that seemed to say the earth revolved around the sun. Second of all, I'm not Catholic and what they supported doesn't mean a hill of beans to me!

But there's a lot of allegorical scripture in the bible too isnt there? Its impossible to read the whole book literally otherwise parts of it would not make sense.......revelation for a case in point.................

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Jorge,

Hi, Soul-Searcher50.

I agree totally with you in that sometimes we see and believe what we want and not what is objective.

Everyone could be right about everything everytime unless there was a standard applicable to everyone on everything all the time. That is what The Bible is to me.

God inspired the Bible, amognst other things, to give us an objective way of knowing Him the way He Is and not as we want Him to be.

You depict a God that is impersonal, neutral, powerless, lethargically detached from the world and lovingly unidimensional. We are partakers of his very essence; he is in us, we are in him: we are divine. We don't need moral standards, authority, justice, grace, salvation. Sin is an illusion. It is all about our level of spiritual enlightenment, which can be achieved by self-awareness. We are divine sparks that fell on earth for no apparent reason and must make our way back up to rejoin the Supreme Being.

In Scriptures God reveals Himself as a distinct Person (triune, for that matter) Who created the universe out of nothing (not of His Own Nature) and actively sustains it. He commands history, has standards, teaches what is right and what is wrong, judges our actions, and declares in advance what He is going to do. He created us in His image and allows us to exercise choice. He knows we are fallible and dependant on Him for grace, forgiveness and remission of sins. That is why He offered Jesus as the perfect atonement for our trespasses. We just need to acknowledge Him and abide in Him to avoid the condemnation that sin and lawlessness deserve.

He is not only perfect Love, but also perfect Justice, Righteousness, Peace, Knowledge, Power, Sovereignty, etc. Love that does not teach, correct, inspire, transform, elevate and liberate is not Love but darkening and vicious permissiveness not in line with God's Nature.

He perfectly exercises all His Attributes harmoniously and eternally. We cannot be like Him, for we are His 'Handiwork'.

Be Abundantly Blessed In Jesus' Name.

Bless you bro. Spot on on whom God really is.

Peace,

Dave

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Dave, if all you can do is pontificate, you must know that we can't even discuss issues.

You are by far the most absolute person on this board.

I'm not even sure I could negate your bias, you think I'm a Meglomaniac now..... If that helps you rationalize then so be it.

Did I bring up "thick headed Neanderthals? NO! I don't think you are all thick headed, I just think about you the same way you think about the Romans and their Polytheism.

You have the truth, and to you there is no replacing it. You're lost in my book. No doubt you have strong convictions to write these beautiful things that completely are factless. They sound really great though.

The eye? It's one of the worst eyes in nature. I'm red-green color blind, and about as bad as it gets too.

You clearly don't have any understanding of Evolution if you can't see that breeding is selection. None what so ever. We've bred dogs, we've kept those traits we want in them. That's why today we have stalkers, pointers, runners, protectors and the whole line of dog you can by like a coat of paint. We've sped up Evolution.

Do you really think I've cheapened life? After telling you how much fun it is to be alive, you can actually come back and say this?! hehehehe Not going to work. I would encourage the Christians reading that to not fall for it's implications. You know if you met me in real life, we'd have a sit down and you'd see that I enjoy my life quite a bit. If it were so cheapened I wouldn't worry about cuts now would i

Daniel,

Actually you will find that most of the Christians on Worthy do believe the way that I do. I'm just vocal about it.

Secondly you are the one who is lost. I know who my Savior is.

You still haven't proven any thing other than selection with various dog Breeds. That my friend is not evolution. If the dog could be bred to sprout wings and begin to purr like a kitten. You might have a case. Still it is a like kind from whence it came . It is still a dog. Just a selectively bred dog. I have a selectively bred dog. He still likes to roll in poo, poo and bark when a skunk walks through the yard. They couldn't breed the dog out of him. Yes, his temperment is a little better but this is not another animal completely nor has he yet been bred to read a paper and walk on his hind legs.

The Lord bless you my friend.

Peace,

Dave

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Some mentioned that we might just have the "God we want." You quoted it from somewhere Dave. Do you try to negate this bias in your life?

Ah' I see I have the God I want. That you makes me laugh simple because it is costly to follow my God. You see, I have to die to live the life that He desires.

Yet He is alltogether Lovely and Worthy to be Praised. Though He slay me? I will say, "Blessed Be His Holy Name!" Matter of fact I will shout it out from the rooftops and the back of Wal Marts. I will sit at traffic lights with the windows down on a bad day and scream," Jesus," at the top of my Lungs, "How beautiful You are!"

I will dance and sing more so than anyone else at Church. Until they call me zealot. I will weep on His feet and dry His feet with my hair. I will save up a years pay to anoint His Feet although others think the cost too much. I will crawl hands and feet through a crowd on rough rock to touch the hem of His Robe. I will cry out, " Jesus Thou Son of David have Mercy on me!"

When others tell me to be reverant. I will cry all the louder.

I'll never ever know the Price God paid to see Him on the Cross that day.

I am forever eternally grateful.

He is not the God I want. He is the God I need and I bend and yield to His way daily my friend. If you only knew.

Peace,

Dave

[CSLewis]

I ask myself "why do non-believers come to a christian forum?"

I answer "because they seek the truth"

[Michael333]

The Church does not have an official position on whether the stars, nebulae, and planets we see today were created at that time or whether they developed over time (for example, in the aftermath of the Big Bang that modern cosmologists discuss). However, the Church would maintain that, if the stars and planets did develop over time, this still ultimately must be attributed to God and his plan, for Scripture records: "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host [stars, nebulae, planets] by the breath of his mouth" (Ps. 33:6).

But the Catholic Church has been forced to accept science because of the Galileo Galilei "incident". Either they started to accept science or they covered themselves with ridicule. I mean, they actually claimed the Earth was standing still and when shown proof of the contrary they tried to kill the truth in favor of their preconceptions Note what they say now: "ok scientists are right but we have always been right and will be right forever no matter what scientists say; we made a lot of assumptions about tons of things without having a shred of evidence but even if everything we say will be shown wrong we will still be right" They will keep retreating forever as science pushes them back. First it was Adam and Eve made directly by God, then they accepted evolution and said it still is the way God made us. How far back can you push God before he becomes irrelevant?

This statement shows that you need to do a little research OF YOUR OWN and get your facts straight on the "Galileo incident" as you put it. This would be a lengthy discussion in itself. I say "research of your own" because if you actually have done historical research, and not been guided by others' anti-christian, one-sided opinions, for the mere purpose of "patronizing", then you just might have a different view on things. Also, please share with us the sources you are claim to be quoting from.

You fail to realize that the judges who presided over Galileo

[Jorge S]

But scientists didn't try Galileo. The church did, because what he said went against their dogma. As time passed they changed until they became like they are now, a bunch of priests claiming no matter how much they have been wrong they are still right.

You'll be surprised to know that Galileo was betrayed by a colleague professor who disliked his heliocentric views. You must understand that the prevailing view within the scientific circles of that time on the arrangement of the universe was Aristotelian. The matter was not a Church priority and was never a point of debate before. The influence of Greek Philosophy within the early Church led to a disregard for the natural world, which was viewed as an imperfect and base reflection of spiritual things. That is why certain positions and paradigms in our understanding of nature, regardless of how awckward we may see them today, went critically unchallenged for a very long time.

Galileo was not the rebellious atheist you want him to be. He defended freedom of inquiry as much as he also advocated that the results of scientific inquiry were not to be taken as articles of faith.

By the way, the Catholic Church apologized under John Paul II for the Galileo Trial.

...- now it's obvious to me that belief in God is completely irrational and impossible to back up in any sensible way.

It is more obvious to me that denying God's Existence takes quite a lot more of 'blind faith' than the one you think you're fighting.

Which still means "God exists no matter what". Ok, I understood you want God to exist. I'm sure God can do anything you want him to do and is whatever you want him to be.

God is available to anyone who cares to seek Him. You can try and experience for yourself rather than relying on someone else's testimony.

Science will explain how life arose on this planet. If science won't nobody will; religion doesn't explain, it claims. Claiming is very different from explaining.

Religion does not claim anything. God declared He made 'the heavens and the earth, and all of the hosts of them.'

He didn't explain the process in terms of Quantum Physics. He said He did it by an orderly set of fiats in the span of 6 days.

In principle, there should not be contradictions between Science (the student of Creation) and the Bible (the testimony of the Creator.) Whatever position Science may hold contrary to the Bible is temporary and bound to change as more evidence is accumulated and properly interpreted, as good Science always does.

It just claims. Got it? In the same way evolution doesn't need any higher force to work, the same will be true for anything else explained by science. It's the way things are.

Evolution as a whole is a theory, and not a uniform one.

Why? Can't you simply do what I did and check it up?

Christians live in this world, go to school and learn like anybody else. I was raised as an atheist, studied evolution at school and believed in it. I later became a Christian and changed my understanding. I now trust the Bible and there's nothing in the Bible confirming that God used evolution to create the world and its inhabitants.

Actually, it's the other way around: religion is bothering science by putting gods everywhere they seem to fit.

You may wish to update your medieval mindset. Evolution, not Creation, has officially been taught for decades at schools. And Science, as well as the Arts, Sports, Entertainment, Philosophy, etc, have had no limitation from the Church, much less in America.

[Guest Timbo]

Hi Lepaca Kliffoth,

When a special centennial edition of Darwin