Jacob as the first Isrealite

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Old Timer,

My thoughts:

Hebrews 8:8-11 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Also:

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

It would appear to me that all 12 tribes were known and considered "of Israel". Many were scattered among other nations, and I believe we can see that in the Epistles, starting with Rome.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Shelak]

I wanted to put this in the discussion today in the worthychat room, but the moderator told me not to since I was not a "teacher, and I would mislead people" with my semetics (not sure of the spelling of that)

Shelak

Then I would say that the moderator was mistaken. Presenting verses to show why you have a question or concern is perfectly valid for any Christian.

Cephas,

Shelak really needs to take this discussion between himself and the chat moderator in question.

From Shelak ... I have gotten the answer to my question above and beyond what I needed. I sim ply asked a question, I have no problems with any moderator, or chatter, or anyone who posts on these boards. I think Ill not ask questions anymore! I simply wanted to know who it was the God changed his name to Israel, and that is all I wanted to know, please save the theology for someone who wants to study this subject in depth, which is not me. Thank everyone who posted. Subject closed as far as I am concerned. Lets just drop it!

Shelak

[Old Timer]

Dad Ernie and others,

Yes, the verses you quoted from the New Testament leave little doubt that all the 12 tribes are restored but ALL of those verses are speaking of a future time when Christ will reign. This is right in line with the verses of Hosea (chapter 1) that I previously quoted.

I certainly am not claiming that the northern ten tribes are the Mormons, the British Commonwealth or some other people but if these 10 tribes are not now separated from Judah, the Jews, the people we now refer to as Jews, then explain that first chapter of Hosea to me. Who are the people that God said he would divorce, have nothing to do with, yet would be counted as the sand of the sea? They were not Judah for in contrast to the curses on Israel there was the blessing on Judah, Hos. 1:7.

Ezekiel chapter 37 speaks of the joining of two sticks, Judah and Israel. This is right in line with Hosea and again, it is at the end time, at the end of the age. If they are not now separated how can they be re-joined?

Perhaps I am missing something or I am trying to read into it more than what is there but it certainly seems to me that those 10 tribes are indeed

[O'Dannyboy]

I wanted to put this in the discussion today in the worthychat room, but the moderator told me not to since I was not a "teacher, and I would mislead people" with my semetics (not sure of the spelling of that)

Shelak

Then I would say that the moderator was mistaken. Presenting verses to show why you have a question or concern is perfectly valid for any Christian.

Cephas,

Shelak really needs to take this discussion between himself and the chat moderator in question.

From Shelak ... I have gotten the answer to my question above and beyond what I needed. I sim ply asked a question, I have no problems with any moderator, or chatter, or anyone who posts on these boards. I think Ill not ask questions anymore! I simply wanted to know who it was the God changed his name to Israel, and that is all I wanted to know, please save the theology for someone who wants to study this subject in depth, which is not me. Thank everyone who posted. Subject closed as far as I am concerned. Lets just drop it!

Shelak

I' sorry to say, Shelak, that once you ask a question on a forum it's out of your hands. The best you can do, once your question is answered, is to move on. Since this is a Christian forum, you call expect that many of your posts will end up in a theological discussion, and some of them way even wind up a bit heated. You should in no way feel responisble when people get carried away on a thread you started. As for your questions, feel free to ask them, but you can, in no way, expect every answer to be short and sweet, especially here. There are many very learned people here and they, like I, enjoy sharpening themselves against others. Try not to take it personal if a discussion you started continues without you. I am very glad your question was answered and hope you will feel comfortable enough to ask more of them.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Old Timer,

but ALL of those verses are speaking of a future time when Christ will reign.

Did you read these verses:

Acts 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Dare I say you are wrong?

Whenever you read the OT, you must take into account the revelation of the NT. We find so many times in the OT verses that on the surface seem to conflict with that of the NT, such as the Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, yet we find in the NT, that a "New Covenant" will be made with the houses of Israel and Judah (which encompasses all of Israel). We also find verses in the NT that are explanations of verses in the OT, but when you read the OT verses, they appear "out of context" with the surrounding text. The NT, always takes precedent over the OT. So if you can "fit" the OT prophecies INTO the NT, then your the results may be more accurate.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Shelak]

I wanted to put this in the discussion today in the worthychat room, but the moderator told me not to since I was not a "teacher, and I would mislead people" with my semetics (not sure of the spelling of that)

Shelak

Then I would say that the moderator was mistaken. Presenting verses to show why you have a question or concern is perfectly valid for any Christian.

Cephas,

Shelak really needs to take this discussion between himself and the chat moderator in question.

From Shelak ... I have gotten the answer to my question above and beyond what I needed. I sim ply asked a question, I have no problems with any moderator, or chatter, or anyone who posts on these boards. I think Ill not ask questions anymore! I simply wanted to know who it was the God changed his name to Israel, and that is all I wanted to know, please save the theology for someone who wants to study this subject in depth, which is not me. Thank everyone who posted. Subject closed as far as I am concerned. Lets just drop it!

Shelak

I' sorry to say, Shelak, that once you ask a question on a forum it's out of your hands. The best you can do, once your question is answered, is to move on. Since this is a Christian forum, you call expect that many of your posts will end up in a theological discussion, and some of them way even wind up a bit heated. You should in no way feel responisble when people get carried away on a thread you started. As for your questions, feel free to ask them, but you can, in no way, expect every answer to be short and sweet, especially here. There are many very learned people here and they, like I, enjoy sharpening themselves against others. Try not to take it personal if a discussion you started continues without you. I am very glad your question was answered and hope you will feel comfortable enough to ask more of them.

Oh my I didnt mean that others couldnt discuss this subject, but I hope no one thinks that I posted this question to grind some kind of axe against any moderator, that was not the purpose of my post ... Im loving the information in these posts, but when someone suggests that I have a problem with a moderator then I respond to that.

Im still interested in it, just dont want others to think Im bucking the worthy system! Ok?

Shelak

[Old Timer]

Greetings Old Timer,

but ALL of those verses are speaking of a future time when Christ will reign.

Did you read these verses:

Acts 26:7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Dare I say you are wrong?

Whenever you read the OT, you must take into account the revelation of the NT. We find so many times in the OT verses that on the surface seem to conflict with that of the NT, such as the Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, yet we find in the NT, that a "New Covenant" will be made with the houses of Israel and Judah (which encompasses all of Israel). We also find verses in the NT that are explanations of verses in the OT, but when you read the OT verses, they appear "out of context" with the surrounding text. The NT, always takes precedent over the OT. So if you can "fit" the OT prophecies INTO the NT, then your the results may be more accurate.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dad Ernie,

Yes, you may say I am wrong and I am quick to admit on this subject I may well be.

Yes, I did read all the verses. I won't belabor the point but Acts 26 does say, the promises the 12 tribes hope to come. Doesn

Edited May 10, 2006 by Old Timer

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Old Timer,

Some "statistics" for you:

ICEJ - Tuesday, 2 May 2006

More Jews in Israel than in any other country

For the first time since the first century, there are more Jews living in Israel than in any other country and, according to demographic studies, within 30 years the majority of Jews in the world will be living here. Ahead of Israel's 58th Independence Day celebrations on Wednesday, the Central Bureau of Statistics announced that the country's population stands at 7.03 million, of which 5.64 million are Jews. This is more than the estimated 5.3 million Jews living in the US, until now home to the highest number of Jews. "If current trends continue, there could be an absolute majority of world Jewry living in Israel within 25 to 30 years," Prof. Sergio DellaPergola of the Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem told The Jerusalem Post on Monday. He attributed the increase in Israel's Jewish population to higher birth rates rather than a population increase due to immigration. "Israel is the only country in the world with a natural increase in its Jewish population," said DellaPergola. The Jewish population of the United States, in the meantime, has been notoriously difficult to measure. "The last surveys were taken in 2001, and even then the figures are not as accurate as the numbers provided by Israeli statisticians," the professor said.

The Jewish Population of the World - 10/19/04

(these are a little older states I have acquired)

The estimated strength of world Jewry today is little more than 13 million. We say

[Guest Cephas]

Oh my I didnt mean that others couldnt discuss this subject, but I hope no one thinks that I posted this question to grind some kind of axe against any moderator, that was not the purpose of my post ... Im loving the information in these posts, but when someone suggests that I have a problem with a moderator then I respond to that.

Im still interested in it, just dont want others to think Im bucking the worthy system! Ok?

Shelak

Oh no, I didn't think you had an axe to grind, and I've already sent an apology to the moderator for my mistating what I intended. Enjoy the conversation and don't worry. I'm enjoying it too.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, the verses you quoted from the New Testament leave little doubt that all the 12 tribes are restored but ALL of those verses are speaking of a future time when Christ will reign. This is right in line with the verses of Hosea (chapter 1) that I previously quoted.

Actually the modern restoration of Israel includes all of the tribes, not just the Southern tribes. I have always laughed at the notion of ten lost tribes. They were never lost.

In 2Chronicles 34:9 during the reign of Josiah, post exile, the high priest Hilkiah collected money from not only the tribes of Judah and Benjiman but from Manasseh, Ephraiim, and the rest of the remnant of Israel.

In Ezra 6:16,17, all twelve tribes were represented at the dedication of Zerubbabel's Temple.

The restoration of both houses to the Land is happening today right in front of us.