Trinity? Mark13 "The Lord is One"

[Voice Of God]

And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, "AND" JESUS CHRIST whom THOU has sent. (John 17:3)

[nebula]

Like I said, it was only a word study suggestion . . . . or you can stick with quantum physics if you like. But if you are not going to seriously research what "right hand" meant to those who were given the oracles of God then it is silly for me to even begin to address the scriptures you presented.

Blindseeker -

I am going to be honest here and let you know right off the bat that I felt very demeaned by your last sentence. So, I appologize if what ia say here doesn't come out very nice, because I am felling a bit hurt and angry.

1) I appreciate your responding to my questions.

2) I was trying to be humorous with the "quantum physics comment." It's like someone riding in a car with someone who is driving at 40mph above the speed limit or something outrageous like that, and crying out to God, "Lord, please, send me somewhere safe - like Baghdad!" You know - sarcasm? I did not mean it as an insult, and I appologize if it came across that way.

3) Are you taking it as an insult that I am not completely agreeing with you because I have some loose ends that have not been answered to my satisfaction? If so, why?

4) I took your last sentence to be insulting. First of all, I am in college - one master's level education class, student interning at a local high school, and calculus II - plus I have two part time jobs. I'm a bit booked to be researching all of this. Besides the fact that I would not know where to begin to look. If you have any suggestions that won't take more than ten or 15 minutes, I'd be happy to look. But right now, I am seeing: "Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father." I understand you to be saying, "Jesus is the Father and Jesus is the right hand." So, I am interpreting this to be, "Jesus is sitting beside HImself!" Can you understand my confusion? Now it is not just a matter of understanding terminologies, but usage of it, which is a bit confusing to me.

So, would you please cut me a little slack? I am not in the habit of sarcastically cutting down another's point of view - unless they really deserve it, and even then I usually edit myself. I had no intention of cutting down your post. If I was brushing you aside, I would have just kept my mouth shut and not asked for you to clarify my confusion. I was sincerely trying to dig out your point of view on this for all it is worth. Is there something wrong with that? Please let me know if there is.

Thank-you.

[BlindSeeker]

And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, "AND" JESUS CHRIST whom THOU has sent. (John 17:3)

voG,

Perhaps you failed to read the latter part of my last post --

• • "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    
    
    Perhaps even a simple study on the Greek word translated to the English word "and."
    
    
    • 2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and <kai> God, even <kai> our Father, which hath loved us, and <kai> hath given us everlasting consolation and <kai> good hope through grace.
      

It can mean "and" as in "also" or it can be used definitively as "even, " such as "God, even our Father."

Therefore, the verse you submitted, John 17:3, could indisputably be translated correctly,

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, even <kai> Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.

[Voice Of God]

• • "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    

  Hi Blindseeker, notice it says...."HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED"

  Everything that Jesus is and has, was given to Him by THE FATHER.

  Names, Authorities, Titles, Powers, Etc.

  We have ONE GOD, The Father, who is ABOVE ALL, IN ALL, and THROUGH ALL.

[BlindSeeker]

Hi Blindseeker, notice it says...."HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED"

Everything that Jesus is and has, was given to Him by THE FATHER.

Names, Authorities, Titles, Powers, Etc.

We have ONE GOD, The Father, who is ABOVE ALL, IN ALL, and THROUGH ALL. 

Oh. So Jesus is only called "the Everlasting Father" . . . but He isn't really ?

He is only called "the Mighty God" . . . but He isn't really?

How do we know Jesus is really the Prince of Peace then?

How can you interpret this verse and only give 33.33% of it as actual truth to Jesus?

You have really searched this out haven't you?

[Voice Of God]

Hi Blindseeker, notice it says...."HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED"

Everything that Jesus is and has, was given to Him by THE FATHER.

Names, Authorities, Titles, Powers, Etc.

We have ONE GOD, The Father, who is ABOVE ALL, IN ALL, and THROUGH ALL.

[BlindSeeker]

Blindseeker -

I am going to be honest here and let you know right off the bat that I felt very demeaned by your last sentence.

[nebula]

I do not mind engaging in progressive reasoning and answering questions, true point versus counter-point investigation for truth. But I must admit, I have little or no desire to swap personal opinions with anyone about God and/or the scriptures.

Hey!

Thanks for clarifying where you are coming from. Appology accepted. I likewise appologize for over-reacting.

I think this is where the misunderstanding came. I wasn't meaning to "swap personal opinions." I thought you presented a good case, and I was chewing on it, but this one question had bothered me, and I wanted to know how it fit into your understanding of things.

For what it is worth, I have heard that "right hand" is symbolic of power. However, I have also heard that to be "sitting at [someone's] right hand" has to do with delegation of power. This symbol, or expression, comes out of how kings sat on their throne. I'm fuzzy on details and specifics (my memory is like that, sorry). But in my understanding, "the right hand" and "sitting at the right hand" have two different implications.

Have you heard of this?

(OK - found this from a web resource:

Sit . . . at my right hand--not only a mark of honor (1 Kings 2:19), but also implied participation of power (Psalms 45:9, 16:19, Ephesians 1:20).

)

Again, I'm not arguing ideas. I am still chewing on what you had to say. It will be a time before I can say, "I agree" or "I disagree." I'm just digging out all there is to what you had to say that I have contemplated.

Thanks!

Peace!

[BlindSeeker]

Hey!

Thanks for clarifying where you are coming from.

[sagz4Christ]

There is much to these anthropomorphisms of God, especially since God is a Spirit without shape or form. He merely manifest Himself in various forms for both men and angels benefit, because we need a focal point for the infinite.

You lost me on an-thro-morph-isms...that's it...

But I can fully get behind that last statement you made!!

A finite mind cannot EVER conceive anything INFINITE. It is simply impossible.

At least for this mind it is!