free will

[Guest silent_cry]

If there is no sin in heaven, does that mean there is no free will?

[Guest Museed]

Sin cannot be in The presence of God. Heaven is The Lord's Dwelling, or House. Yes there's free will in Heaven, obviusly there has to be, since Angels hvae rebelled Against God. But The True Object can be explained this way. Since it is God's House, he made it, he takes care of it, and he is The Solid Foundation upon which heaven stands, he can set the rules. If he says you can do what you will but not in my House, then we still have free will, since we make the choice to follow or not to follow. If you are a guest in someone's house the same rules apply. The owner of The House will say, you can come and stay with me, but you cannot smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol here, if you do any of these you will have to leave. You then decide whether you want to stay and follow the set rules, or stay somewhere else. You still have the choice. (This next Statements are My Opinion) Once all is said and done, and everybody is in Heaven enjoying the benefits of Salvation. Ever heard The Phrase once you try it, you will never go back. Well this will finally have true meaning. For once Christians seen heaven, and experience it, they will think about the world and how it all was, and will not go back to longing for evil. They will drop on their knees and praise The Saviour for opening their eyes. To me The World is Like a Big Evidence Gathering Place, Judgement Day as a Big Courtroom full of witnesses, The Apostles as The Jury, Jesuschrist as Lawyer, and Mighty God as The Judge. Once The Evidence is put Forward, and the multitudes have seen what they have done or not done, the evil will be manisfested for what it is, and how it missed up the world. Some will be held in Comptempt, The Rest will be Pardoned, for Jesuschrist will act as their intercessor. The Mighty Judge will Rule for The Saints. Some will say we didn't know, or i didn't believe, or some hippocrites will say we have worked for you, and done great things in your name. But God will come out saying there's no excuse, you were given Paradise, free will, and you have slowly turned it into hell. In The End is our choice that will either trap us or set us free.

[Leonard]

OOh!!!! Great question! I'll have to cogitate on that'n for a spell!

[st. Worm]

Just as on earth currently, the issue is not free will as much as inclination and nature of our being. As sinners our inclination and our nature is to sin. Our natural will is not free nor it is inclined to do anything but sin. That is who and what we are in Adam. We are born in bondage to sin. Regeneration or being born again brings some change from that but we never shed our sin nature in this life.

However, in Heaven our glorified bodies will not only NOT be inclined to sin but it will not even be possible to sin. We will have new natures and a new being. We will not only be in the state of the original Adam but even better because we will have no ability to sin at that point. We will have no need of the condemnation of the Law. Heaven will be a world of perfect love and the fulfillment of the Law. The Law was given as a basic system of "do nots" in this world because as sinners that is the only way we could understand it. We will no longer have any need for that. Sin will be inconceivable to those in God's presence in Heaven. We will not enter Heaven with the ability to sin.

On the other hand, those in Hell will be completely unrestrained in their hatred of God and all those around them. It will be a state of constant misery and the inclination and nature will be perfect sin.

Free will, as defined in this day as the ability to do whatever we want, has been a myth since the Fall.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

I am in agreement with most of what St. Worm has said, albeit that I believe we are the same as Adam in his original condition, pre-fall. The flesh profiteth nothing. I post the following for consideration:

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

2227 zoopoieo {dzo-op-oy-eh'-o}

from the same as 2226 and 4160; TDNT - 2:874,290; v

AV - quicken 9, give life 2, make alive 1; 12

1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

2a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

2b) to restore to life

2c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

2d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with

new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing

up, growing

We are of the "last" Adam and life has been imparted to us that is supernatural, it is "spiritual", if we are in Christ Jesus. The first Adam was only a "living soul", dust brought to life by the breath of God.

I find the following verse to help in my understanding of this "breath":

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Jesus' disciples needed at least a "measure" of the Holy Spirit in order to perform the miracles they later performed, yet as we know "the Holy Spirit had not yet been given. What is the difference here and with Pentecost?

So it is with the "life" that the dust of Adam received, compared to the receiving of the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest NewPilgrim]

I think museed is on the right sort of lines. To trully express love for God, Adam and Eve would need to have the choice, the choice of God over the knowledge of Good and evil (sin, if you like) The presence of the fruit of knowledge served this purpose, to be a constant representative of Mans choosing God over sin to express his love. We being born into a sinful world choose God over sin when we come to Christ in our depravity and conscience and so when the new heaven and earth are formed we will have already made that choice, unlike Adam and Eve who were in a state of flux over the same choice until the fall. God will maintain an eternity free from sin because those present will have already chosen to love God over the love of sin. We have expressed our freewill in coming to the foot of the cross and I for one gladly accept an eternity without the ability to sin and I do so of my own will.

[Smalcald]

I think museed is on the right sort of lines. To trully express love for God, Adam and Eve would need to have the choice, the choice of God over the knowledge of Good and evil (sin, if you like) The presence of the fruit of knowledge served this purpose, to be a constant representative of Mans choosing God over sin to express his love. We being born into a sinful world choose God over sin when we come to Christ in our depravity and conscience and so when the new heaven and earth are formed we will have already made that choice, unlike Adam and Eve who were in a state of flux over the same choice until the fall. God will maintain an eternity free from sin because those present will have already chosen to love God over the love of sin. We have expressed our freewill in coming to the foot of the cross and I for one gladly accept an eternity without the ability to sin and I do so of my own will.

No I totally disagree, to say that

[Dad Ernie]

No I totally disagree, to say that

[EricH]

No I totally disagree, to say that

[littlejoe]

my friend this is how I make it work for me. I remember the Our Father. and when it comes to the line Thy will be done.... I insert in me on earth as it isin heaven. No one hears me but God. The only free will I may subject to am other is mine and I freely chose to subject my will to Gods. Love in Christ littlejoe