Is This A Christian Dichotomy?

[Copper Scroll]

Will somebody please respond to my earlier question about the potential for unjust laws? As far as I can see, the requirements for US citizenship, let alone entering the country, are bizzare. If someone from Australia flies to the US for a holiday, parts of the questionaire ask questions about 'are you planning on committing a terrorist act' and 'did you work for the German government during WWII,' as if anyone who truthfully could say yes to either would. You're all just saying 'the law is the law is the law' without responding to whether or not it's a good law. You can't just take the stance that all human laws should pass without question, otherwise outdated laws would never be reppealed or changed, and new ones would be passed without scrutiny. A better question might be, 'Are the standards for becoming a legal immigrant too high, given the monetary and social conditions of those applying for the status?' ie, my earlier point of, if you don't have a passport ot I.D and never have because you're living in squalor somewhere in Honduras or Rwanda, even if you genuinley need asulym, how can you apply for it under the law? Doesn't the very fact of that make the law unjust? And if that's the case, but controls still need to be placed on who can enter the country and why, is there a better way of doing it than the status quo, which by all accounts seems not to be working at all?

Perhaps, the legal processes of becoming a citizen will have to change. The first thing to do, though, is secure the border!

[Guest Sunshine & Smiles]

Not sure why there is so much focus on 'illegal immigration' now. I can understand having rules, and not allowing people to just move right in without becoming citizens. What I have a problem with is how families are being broken up. Lets say, years ago, before the birth of their children, immigrants moved into the USA, to work, and then they gave birth to their families. This made their children 'legal natural born'. SO -- is it fair to split up these households and orphan the children just because suddenly its not LEGAL to keep these hard working people here in the USA? I think Christianity should be in favor of protecting 'the family unit'?

Now, about whether or not it was RIGHT in the beginning at the foundation of the USA, for People to STEAL the land from the Native Americans, and then throw them on reservations. Two WRONGS do not make a RIGHT in any of this.

Land of the Free, Home of the Brave? Come on, was that very GOD LIKE? Is it now, splitting up family units? I think there ought to be a way to allow people who have roots now in the USA, to STAY.

In retrospect, I think it was totally unjust, and un God Like, how they came over to Native America - killed the Indians, in-slaved them, put them on reservations, (Now they get to run Casinos), but there was blaintant disregard back then by many of our ancestors for the well-being and the very lives of other Humans. Its happening again. Laws, you say? Where were the laws THEN?

Sure we can come up with 'excuses' or reasons to justify ANYTHING. No one is going to win. USA Citizens have lost respect for our OWN country, thats why we see all the littering, there is going to be the unlawful still here who keep killing one another. Sexual Preditors, and those who don't respect our land, they ought to be 'booted out of the USA'. I think that prisoners should not be filling up our prisons, we shouldn't have to pay for their room n board, instead make them work to help poverished countries - or devestated places rebuild. Boot them out of the USA, to perhaps third world countries, where the need is great and they can have it tougher on them. That's my opinion. I want to keep America Beautiful., and peaceful. A place to be proud of.

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I post for your enjoyment the Mexican Rules of People coming into THAT Country.

1. Only professionals or investors can immigrate to the country.

No unskilled laborers will be allowed in. Investors must be able

to invest at least 40,000 times the daily average wage. If they can't,

they are not allowed in.

2. Immigrants may purchase property, but locations and availability

will be limited. Ocean front property cannot be purchased by immigrants.

It is exclusively for citizens born in the country.

3. Immigrants cannot vote nor can they be elected to any public office.

4. Immigrants cannot collect any type of government assistance.

5. Immigrants cannot protest the countries government, policies

or president.

6. Immigrants cannot display a flag of a foreign country.

7. Immigrants who have illegally entered the country will be found

and imprisoned.

Sound kind of harsh? Well, these are laws that are currently part of

the Immigration Laws of, you guessed it --

Mexico!

In addition, Mexico has a fortified southern border with other Central

American countries - with fences and the military guarding it - both of

which Pres. Fox does not want the US to do with our own border!!

Edited May 29, 2006 by Sunshine & Smiles

[BlindSeeker]

. . . Christian principles. They were fighting to keep a rock that had the 10 commandments engraved on it in a court room. They were also fighting to keep "In God We Trust" written on our money. I know some of the Christian principles that Jesus taught were that we should "feed the hungry", "clothe the naked" and champion the cause of the oppressed. "Do unto others..." (the golden rule.)

Now this is where I start to have problems. Their willing to fight to keep a ROCK in a courtroom and to lobby to keep a saying on our money but then it comes to helping people, "illegal immigrants" to be specific we turn our backs and shout "Go back home" or "get out of our country you don't belong here."

What's up with this? . . .

Reminds me when I lived in Miami and was at a b-day party for a friend. One of the guest was a

[Gerioke]

There is one big problem with your argument. The issue isn't whether or not to have compassion on immigrants. The issue is whether or not to reward law breakers. The people in question are illegals. They entered the country in an unlawful manner and we have every right to demand they be deported. As for the price of fruits and vegetables, I would be willing to pay more for them in return for paying higher wages to American citizens to do those jobs.

As far as the 10 commandments issue, it is a matter of whether or not to allow the devil to take ground from the church. If we concede an issue like this without a fight, athiests will not stop there. They will eventually fight to take away our personal freedoms. There have already been moves to take Christian radio and TV off the air. I am not willing to concede an issue like a 10 commandments monument on public ground any more than the military was willing to concede a worthless piece of ground to the opposing army. The surest way to lose is to continually give up ground. If anything, the church should be on the offensive and fighting to take ground back from the devil, like for instance returning prayer and Bible study to the Public School system. We must keep the enemies of God on their heels, not the other way around.

The pharasees used the law to oppress the poor too.

[cjrose]

I think that with the Holy Spirit living within us there should be no confusion. There are many liberals out there who want to take away the fundamental principals and one of them is the Ten Commandments. For them to take it out of the court rooms is a travesty in my opinion. And In God We Trust had been on our currency for all time. They have even taken away prayer in our classrooms and if I'm not mistaken The Pledge of Allegience. The world is in a spiritual warfare which means we just have to be a force for God in every way. I was going to say if the devil gets his way, there would be no bibles or bible studies and we would have to go underground but one day we will have to do just that. So now is the time to not be confused and go out there and fight the good fight for the Lord. Wear our Armor proudly.

As far as the illegal immigrants, they should be deported. They come here and they break our laws, take away our jobs and over run neighbors that I am afraid to drive in to. I do have compassion for them. For those who come here to want to make a better life for themselves and their families. But there must be a way for them to enter with a short term/long term visa legally. The problem is we don't have enough man power to keep track of all of them. I hope that as Christians we all have compassion for them. Sure they work their butts off so that we can have fruits and vegitables but now that our unemployment rate has gone down, don't you think that there are men and women out there who would take any job to feed their families. They are all taken now by the Mexicans.

America is the land of the free and of the brave and we have fought for extremely hard to keep it that way. I admire your thoughts on this subject and hope I'm not way off base.

God Bless,

Cjrose

Edited May 29, 2006 by cjrose

[secondeve]

Well said, BlindSeeker!

'The American way of life' was why Bush didn't sign the Kyoto accord, and, in keeping with Bush, why Howard followed suit. Apparently, it's the God-given right of every American and Australian to drive two gas-guzzling cars so that everyone else on the planet suffers the effects of the resultant greenhouse gases. And when studies came out showing that we're going to run out of fuel in the next century or so, Bush said it wasn't fair of countries like India to use less than America for their needs, because America wanted and deserved more. Even if the study is/was false, what kind of an attitude is that?