Note to atheist.

[CellShade]

And likewise, the atheists deserve respect as well. Provided they are not here to be contentious. We were all once lost. Thankfully, someone showed me respect while tactfully showing me the error of my ways. Anyone who showed me disdain and disrespect lost me from the first word.

Christ died for the atheist as well.

Amen.

I did thought I was forgetting something, so sorry I forgot about respecting atheist .

Yes once we were lost but Jesus rescued us, and this people need guidence so God can help them out

[Work in Progress]

[Soul_Searcher50]

Hi apothanein kerdos,

"If there is no hell and literally no consequence in the afterlife, what does it matter how I live?"

Why do you need Hell and consequences to live a life of love and forgivness? What kind of life brings you joy? One of love, or one of fear and paranoia?

"If there is no consequence, then why did Jesus come to earth to die?"

To show us that our fears are unfounded. To show us that death has no meaning. To show us we are one with God and with each other. By the way, He didn't "die," He allowed his body to die, but He knew he was of God and therefore immortal.

"If you do not believe He died, then why did He come to teach us?"

As I said above...

"Why did God create us, especially if He knew we would kill each other?"

You tell me. Why did God kill everyone in the world (including innnocent people), except Noah and his family, knowing man would be just as depraved afterwards? Why did God create the world knowing He'd have to send Christ to save us? (John 1:1-10) Why did God allow the serpent into the Garden to tempt Eve and Adam? Why did God put the forbidden tree in their reach? Tell me, is God omniscient?

To answer your question, God created us so that we could experience being apart from God--even though that separation itself is an illusion. And in our experiencing being, God TOO experiences life as we do, being that we are actually one with God.

"Your theory, though it might feel good and provide a warm feeling concerning the afterlife, leaves so many logical questions that someone who is intellectually honest with himself cannot possibly believe what you are teaching."

I could say the same about your beliefs, as my questions above point out.

[Copper Scroll]

"I don't know" is the default position you start from when trying to explain something. That would be atheism.

I think that that would be agnosticism: "I don't know if there is a God." Atheism says: "There is no God."

...declaring what they cannot prove as self-evident....the unproven and unsubstantiated assumption that God exists ...

Is there nothing you hold to be self-evident? Have you no unproven and unsubstantiated assumptions of your own?

I already know the answers to these questions. You do hold some things self-evident, and you do have assumptions.

[Copper Scroll]

"I don't know" is the default position you start from when trying to explain something. That would be atheism.

I think that that would be agnosticism: "I don't know if there is a God." Atheism says: "There is no God."

What kind of argument is that?

Well, it's not really an argument at all.

There's only one definiton of atheism, go look it up. You're confusing atheism with strong atheism.

Atheists claim that God does not exist. The "strength" of the atheist depends on how strongly he/she stands behind this claim. Agnostics claim either that they don't know whether God exists or that it cannot be known whether God exists.

Agnostic is an adjective, while atheist and theist are nouns.

"Agnostic" is an adjective, as are "atheist" and "theist"... and they're all nouns too. "Agnosticism" is a noun.

About the fact I make assumptions you're never going to find me making such extraordinary claims like "God exists" without any shred of evidence.

What's "extraordinary"? What's the standard?

Nearly every world culture has posited the existence of the divine. How is this extraordinary? As far as I can tell, it's quite common and ordinary.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Lepeca,

You have neglected folks like myself who were neither Religiously brought up or brought up in atheism. We were simply apathetic.

Neither schooled in athiesm nor Religion. Yet still came to the conclussion that there was a God and that His name is Jesus Christ.

I am sorry that Catholicism has left you feeling hollow. I'm sorry that the heavy demands man places on his fellow man for Righteousness have left you feeling abused. However God never demanded of you anything He could not offer you. He knows you simply aren't capable of Righteousness.

I also haven't seen you nor any other tear apart my Faith in God with your argumentation. If anything you have strengthened it. We were having a nice discussion and when it came to Peace in your heart. You cut and ran.

If you are at Peace with your worldview and in a state of happiness with what you know to be True? Why are you here advocating it so with people who have Peace?

I will not venture to II and advocate Christ with you. yet if you and I sat down and were having coffee and you asked me about my Faith? I would be happy to share with you the Peace that is within my heart. His name is Jesus.

By the way, I am a third generation American Italian. I noticed that you were Italian.

Peace and Blessing be with you.

Peace,

Dave

[apothanein kerdos]

Why do you need Hell and consequences to live a life of love and forgivness? What kind of life brings you joy? One of love, or one of fear and paranoia?

You didn't answer the question. If there are no consequences when I die, why does it matter how I live my life? I ask because, if there is no consequence, no matter what I go to heaven, there are a few people I would love to kill, a few drugs I would love to try, and a few things I would love to steal. That is, after all, my nature. I choose not to do these things because Christ commanded me not to and ultimately there is a consequence to everything I do. If, however, Christ commanded me not to do these things but offers no consequence, I see no reason in loving Him or even following what He taught. I want to do what I want to do.

Secondly, if there is no consequence in the afterlife, then why do we have them in this life?

To show us that our fears are unfounded. To show us that death has no meaning. To show us we are one with God and with each other. By the way, He didn't "die," He allowed his body to die, but He knew he was of God and therefore immortal.

There's the Gnosticism I was waiting for. Jesus' body died but His Spirit departed prior to death, right? That is a distinctly Gnostic teaching. Christ did die, He descended to the spirits in sheol to free them.

Likewise, we are not one with God. We are one in purpose, but our metaphysical reality is different from His, therefore we cannot ontologically be one with God. It is a matter of pure philosophy. If we are one with Him ontologically, then He is equal with us and it is quite plausible that we can overthrow Him. If, however, He created us and we cannot exert power over Him, we cannot be one with Him because this only lends to the fact He exists on a different ontological level.

To answer your question, God created us so that we could experience being apart from God--even though that separation itself is an illusion. And in our experiencing being, God TOO experiences life as we do, being that we are actually one with God.

This makes no sense. Your theory has absolutely no logic behind it, which brings about the question, are you an existentialist? I ask because of the following:

1) You put heavy emphasis on experience

2) You hold to certain Gnostic tennets, which is something Kierkegaard relied heavily upon

3) You seem to take pride in not having logic behind your beliefs

I am merely trying to find out what your worldview is, and thus far it seems misplaced metaphysical dualist and an existentialist if where you stand.

Why did God kill everyone in the world (including innnocent people), except Noah and his family, knowing man would be just as depraved afterwards?

The Bible is very clear that these people were not innocent. God searched the land for a righteous man and only found Noah. Noah also gave people a fair warning, yet he was mocked instead of heeded. Not a single innocent person died.

As for why God did this, it is because He was saddened by man's evilness. Thus, He killed man in order to save man from His own depravity. We know that this time was much more evil than today (Jesus likens the end of days to it). Thus, I believe God let man pursue his desires until man was about to destroy Himself. We know from various scriptures that since that time, God has held back the evilness of man.

Why did God create the world knowing He'd have to send Christ to save us? (John 1:1-10) Why did God allow the serpent into the Garden to tempt Eve and Adam? Why did God put the forbidden tree in their reach?

It fits into His plan. We were created for two reasons:

1) His glory

2) His love

When God created a personable being, He had to allow a choice for being. Thus, He put the tree int he Garden and allowed Eve to be tempted in order to allow a choice (love requires a choice). He knew she would fall, this was part of His plan. By her fall, choice was made (absolute good and absolute evil) and man could now choose to love God or deny Him. Salvation was offered through Christ as the choice for God. Denial of this salvation is absolute evil. It is in His death where His glory is shown, that He was willing to die for His own creation. It was God saying, "I love you this much, now how much do you love me?" Those who respond in faith are accepting this offering...those who do not are denying it.

Tell me, is God omniscient?

Absolutely.

I could say the same about your beliefs, as my questions above point out.

No, my position, otherwise known as Biblical literacy, is logically infallible and does not have any holes. Asking questions does not point out holes in logic...you are going to have to do MUCH better than that mate.

[Observer of dreams]

Like it or not, one day you will bow down and confess Jesus is God, so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you. (Judgement Day)

God loves you, like it or not, He has patience but you have to act quick,you never know when it's gonna be too late

This is not how you win someone over regardless of how you or anyone else feels. This is the kind of thing that will push people farther away, and I will explain why one phrase ata atime.

"Like it or not"

This tells the reader that his opinions are worthless. This is also a symptom of superior self-image.

"one day you will bow down and confess Jesus is God"

You cannot tell the future, and you have no idea what he will or will not do in any given point in time. As you know God will "punish" the ones who refuse to bow to his name. This means that secondave still has a choice. Even if your word is true people that don't worship God or acknowledge him in any way will take offense to this because they don't feel they should have to bow down to ANYONE.

"so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you."

Since when is "bowing down to God" or accepting Jesus's love into your heart "no good" for anyone? The sentance you wrote here is another symptom of a superior self-image.

"He has patience but you have to act quick,you never know when it's gonna be too late"

This is a contradictory statement. Your saying God has infinite patience, which he does, but than saying we have to act quick implying that God doesn't have patience. Keep in mind that the bible has been telling us to "act quickly" since it was written. Furthermore we have a good idea when the end will come as there are hundreds of predictions including but not limited to

1. Wars and rumors of wars

2. THE anti-christ

3. four guys on horses will be running around all crazy-like lol.

[CellShade]

Why do you need Hell and consequences to live a life of love and forgivness? What kind of life brings you joy? One of love, or one of fear and paranoia?

You didn't answer the question. If there are no consequences when I die, why does it matter how I live my life? I ask because, if there is no consequence, no matter what I go to heaven, there are a few people I would love to kill, a few drugs I would love to try, and a few things I would love to steal. That is, after all, my nature. I choose not to do these things because Christ commanded me not to and ultimately there is a consequence to everything I do. If, however, Christ commanded me not to do these things but offers no consequence, I see no reason in loving Him or even following what He taught. I want to do what I want to do.

Secondly, if there is no consequence in the afterlife, then why do we have them in this life?

To show us that our fears are unfounded. To show us that death has no meaning. To show us we are one with God and with each other. By the way, He didn't "die," He allowed his body to die, but He knew he was of God and therefore immortal.

There's the Gnosticism I was waiting for. Jesus' body died but His Spirit departed prior to death, right? That is a distinctly Gnostic teaching. Christ did die, He descended to the spirits in sheol to free them.

Likewise, we are not one with God. We are one in purpose, but our metaphysical reality is different from His, therefore we cannot ontologically be one with God. It is a matter of pure philosophy. If we are one with Him ontologically, then He is equal with us and it is quite plausible that we can overthrow Him. If, however, He created us and we cannot exert power over Him, we cannot be one with Him because this only lends to the fact He exists on a different ontological level.

To answer your question, God created us so that we could experience being apart from God--even though that separation itself is an illusion. And in our experiencing being, God TOO experiences life as we do, being that we are actually one with God.

This makes no sense. Your theory has absolutely no logic behind it, which brings about the question, are you an existentialist? I ask because of the following:

1) You put heavy emphasis on experience

2) You hold to certain Gnostic tennets, which is something Kierkegaard relied heavily upon

3) You seem to take pride in not having logic behind your beliefs

I am merely trying to find out what your worldview is, and thus far it seems misplaced metaphysical dualist and an existentialist if where you stand.

Why did God kill everyone in the world (including innnocent people), except Noah and his family, knowing man would be just as depraved afterwards?

The Bible is very clear that these people were not innocent. God searched the land for a righteous man and only found Noah. Noah also gave people a fair warning, yet he was mocked instead of heeded. Not a single innocent person died.

As for why God did this, it is because He was saddened by man's evilness. Thus, He killed man in order to save man from His own depravity. We know that this time was much more evil than today (Jesus likens the end of days to it). Thus, I believe God let man pursue his desires until man was about to destroy Himself. We know from various scriptures that since that time, God has held back the evilness of man.

Why did God create the world knowing He'd have to send Christ to save us? (John 1:1-10) Why did God allow the serpent into the Garden to tempt Eve and Adam? Why did God put the forbidden tree in their reach?

It fits into His plan. We were created for two reasons:

1) His glory

2) His love

When God created a personable being, He had to allow a choice for being. Thus, He put the tree int he Garden and allowed Eve to be tempted in order to allow a choice (love requires a choice). He knew she would fall, this was part of His plan. By her fall, choice was made (absolute good and absolute evil) and man could now choose to love God or deny Him. Salvation was offered through Christ as the choice for God. Denial of this salvation is absolute evil. It is in His death where His glory is shown, that He was willing to die for His own creation. It was God saying, "I love you this much, now how much do you love me?" Those who respond in faith are accepting this offering...those who do not are denying it.

Tell me, is God omniscient?

Absolutely.

I could say the same about your beliefs, as my questions above point out.

No, my position, otherwise known as Biblical literacy, is logically infallible and does not have any holes. Asking questions does not point out holes in logic...you are going to have to do MUCH better than that mate.

Great post AK .

Yes, I have noticed time and again that religion is completely free from intellect. Must be the lack of education or the brainwashing.

Lepaca Kliffoth ,I believe it's the opposite, since that's what happens to atheism, besides the lack of respect in your post justs proofs my post that lots of atheist are close minded and I can say you obviusly have trouble debating in a good healthy way, so next post, be more respectfull if you want people to respect you. I again repeat I am ok with debating with atheist as long as conversation doesn't go to insults or disrespecting.

If you need a threat to behave in a conscious and moral way you're a very bad person.

You are correct!, because it's human nature to be bad persons.

Also then you are a very bad person, since I know if there wasn't a threat of a ticket for speeding or for not stopping at the stop sign you would not respect the traffic signs,aswell this applies to other things; killing, stealing, and so on.

[CellShade]

Like it or not, one day you will bow down and confess Jesus is God, so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you. (Judgement Day)

God loves you, like it or not, He has patience but you have to act quick,you never know when it's gonna be too late

This is not how you win someone over regardless of how you or anyone else feels. This is the kind of thing that will push people farther away, and I will explain why one phrase ata atime.

"Like it or not"

This tells the reader that his opinions are worthless. This is also a symptom of superior self-image.

"one day you will bow down and confess Jesus is God"

You cannot tell the future, and you have no idea what he will or will not do in any given point in time. As you know God will "punish" the ones who refuse to bow to his name. This means that secondave still has a choice. Even if your word is true people that don't worship God or acknowledge him in any way will take offense to this because they don't feel they should have to bow down to ANYONE.

"so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you."

Since when is "bowing down to God" or accepting Jesus's love into your heart "no good" for anyone? The sentance you wrote here is another symptom of a superior self-image.

"He has patience but you have to act quick,you never know when it's gonna be too late"

This is a contradictory statement. Your saying God has infinite patience, which he does, but than saying we have to act quick implying that God doesn't have patience. Keep in mind that the bible has been telling us to "act quickly" since it was written. Furthermore we have a good idea when the end will come as there are hundreds of predictions including but not limited to

1. Wars and rumors of wars

2. THE anti-christ

3. four guys on horses will be running around all crazy-like lol.

My point is, you have a choice, you can comfess God as your savior right now, or you don't know if God could come this very night, if you don't comfess God as your savior things will just go ugly for you in judgement day.

This is also a symptom of superior self-image.

Don't go all psychologist on me, this is not what I ment, rather is a fair warning I feel like giving people, after all I want them to come to Christ so they can be saved, but what I said is rather a reminder.