What do these verses mean if not the salvation of all mankind?

[st. Worm]

The atoning death and resurrection of Christ provides for universal forgiveness and justification to all men as the verses say. However, we receive that forgiveness through the means of grace, God's Word and Sacraments. It is through these means that God works faith in the unbeliever.

In summation, the benefits are there for all to receive, however those who receive them do so by God's grace through Word and Sacraments.

sw

[kjw47]

Red,

I know u have asked for responses to the verses u listed and i will address that later today when i get home from church. I want to start by saying that when u take a topic such as yours, the salvation of all men, you must look at the totality of scriptures on the subject. Your subject if very broad so there are many scriptures that deal with the salvation of men. I think that you are focusing on the scriptures that support your belief and u are ignoring scriptures that clearly state that some people go to hell. My point is that you have to look at all sides and all of the scriptures dealing with the subject. It is unfair in the pursute of truth, which u say that you are in search of, to just look and some of the material. I wish I had more time, but i will post again later today.

God Bless

CJ

Hi Friends, At 1 john 3 especially 9,10 it is saying this-- Those who practice righteousness are the children of God, and cannot possibly practice sin, those who practice sin are the devils children---- Now we all sin, but all do not practice it according to Gods own inspired words found at 1 John, This is like a mirror for all of us to look into now and again to be certain that we are Gods children. Only Gods children will recieve salvation and Grace period. The reason these are a free gift is because the fact that we do sin, but do not practice it. So if a mortal man tells you that you are saved, yet you are a practicer of sin ( iniquities, lawlessness )( he is a deciever that does not know God ) Jesus will be speaking these words to those on judgement day Matthew 7: 21-23. And i promise you that you do not want to hear Jesus speak these words to you.

Edited June 11, 2006 by kjw47

[DianaA]

I think He means to save "All men" who accept Him.

DianaA

Red, let's look at more than just a verse taken out of a passage, but let's include it into the passage. I think Colossians is the more difficult one to understand, so I will use that one:

v 19 For it was the Father's good pleasure (meaning will) for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

v20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

v21 And although you were formerly alienated (Paul is talking to a Greek church, so here he mentions the alienation of the Gentiles, but they are no longer alienated) and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

v22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death (Because of God's work on the cross, He revealed His plan of salvation to all, not just Jews) , in order to present you before Him holy and blameless beyond reproach-

v23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard... (There is that "if" that shows we must believe and accept the gospel, which is Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, in order for any of us to be reconciled to Him.)

If at any point it sounded like I was talking down to you, I wasn't. I know you're not dumb, I just found it vital to point out some key points of that scripture along with any Jew/Gentile history that was alluded to.

Hi Anika, no apologies necessary, i didnt feel talked down to I am aware of the history and I can see the point you're making........but if i can put it this way, yes, Paul was speaking to a church.....but with any sermon I think there are general points made and ones directed at those within a church, so the first sentence is saying an absolute, its not directed at the church members but rather saying what the will or God's pleasure is going to be.....then its directed personally at the church and their part in the reconcilliation and the divine plan so to speak.....I hope that makes sense, I just know that with sermons I've attended there will have been parts said that would Glorify God and his plan and then what would be required of us within the church......

Also when it says 'if' its to appear holy and blameless......it doesnt say that if any strayed they would be condemned to hell and not reconciled to God