apothanein kerdos Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 we are expected to be clear-headed and rational thinkers. much of the study of philosophy focuses on logic. i love to do those logic problems in the game books. and as far as the word of god being the truth, it is all truth, but it is not all of the truth. in fact, it says all the books in the world could not contain all the could be written. think about it. Actually, John wrote that the accounts about Jesus could not be contained by all the writings in the world. This is to say that Christ accomplished a lot more but John merely focused on what he believed was important. This is not refering to truth but instead historical accounts. The Bible is the foundation of all truth. Even if not distinctly mentioned in the bible, if something is truth you will inevitably find its concept within the Bible. This is the foundation of all Christian philosophy, that there is an absolute and it has no actual competition, just those that wish to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Author Share Posted June 10, 2006 we are expected to be clear-headed and rational thinkers. much of the study of philosophy focuses on logic. i love to do those logic problems in the game books. and as far as the word of god being the truth, it is all truth, but it is not all of the truth. in fact, it says all the books in the world could not contain all the could be written. think about it. Actually, John wrote that the accounts about Jesus could not be contained by all the writings in the world. This is to say that Christ accomplished a lot more but John merely focused on what he believed was important. This is not refering to truth but instead historical accounts. The Bible is the foundation of all truth. Even if not distinctly mentioned in the bible, if something is truth you will inevitably find its concept within the Bible. This is the foundation of all Christian philosophy, that there is an absolute and it has no actual competition, just those that wish to compete. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 quote: Ah, yes, but His Word is also chalk full of logic and philosophy. They are not the final revelation or the final say on God, they are, however, part of that revelation. It is not that they are helpful, it is that they are truly needed if we are to understand God because they are a part of the revelation. SW: Logic and reason are fine tools after they are mastered. But as the great Lutheran theologian Siegbert Becker wrote summarizing Luther's view of reason, "It is not Christianity that needs to be made reasonable." "It is reason that needs to be made Christian." God's Word does not always seem rational to us yet we believe it anyway. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 10, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 10, 2006 quote: Ah, yes, but His Word is also chalk full of logic and philosophy. They are not the final revelation or the final say on God, they are, however, part of that revelation. It is not that they are helpful, it is that they are truly needed if we are to understand God because they are a part of the revelation. SW: Logic and reason are fine tools after they are mastered. But as the great Lutheran theologian Siegbert Becker wrote summarizing Luther's view of reason, "It is not Christianity that needs to be made reasonable." "It is reason that needs to be made Christian." God's Word does not always seem rational to us yet we believe it anyway. Amen! Well that's because, as humans under the Fall, we do not have proper reasoning skills. Though we can reason, we can't reason to our fullest capability in this condition, we still can have it. This is why I agree with you that they are great tools so long as we work at mastering them. As a side note, and I'm sure you're not saying this, but though God's Word may seem irrational, it most certainly is rational (we're just incapable of following it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 The message of salvation is foolishness to the world. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 The message of salvation is foolishness to the world. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But that doesn't mean it's irrational. It means that worldly philosophy can't comprehend such a concept. Why? Salvation makes us admit that we can't make it on our own apart from God, that we HAVE to have a Savior. THis goes against all worldly thought and even all religions. This is why it is foolish to the world...not because it's irrational but because there is no way they can even begin to understand it because they are lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 The preaching of the cross is foolishness to the world but it is not foolishness to us it is the "power of God". I never said anything about the preaching of the cross being irrational I just posted some scriptures... 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1 Corinthians 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. Worm Posted June 11, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,447 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2006 quote: As a side note, and I'm sure you're not saying this, but though God's Word may seem irrational, it most certainly is rational (we're just incapable of following it)." SW: As you've noted, the foolishness of God is wiser than all human wisdom. We believe what God's Word says though it appears irrational and foolish. God appearing in human form as a weak and homely man is foolishness to us. God in the Sacraments is just as foolish yet we abandon human reason at that point to trust in His Word and promises. This is where philosophy fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thechild Posted June 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 195 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2006 we are expected to be clear-headed and rational thinkers. much of the study of philosophy focuses on logic. i love to do those logic problems in the game books. and as far as the word of god being the truth, it is all truth, but it is not all of the truth. in fact, it says all the books in the world could not contain all the could be written. think about it. Actually, John wrote that the accounts about Jesus could not be contained by all the writings in the world. This is to say that Christ accomplished a lot more but John merely focused on what he believed was important. This is not refering to truth but instead historical accounts. The Bible is the foundation of all truth. Even if not distinctly mentioned in the bible, if something is truth you will inevitably find its concept within the Bible. This is the foundation of all Christian philosophy, that there is an absolute and it has no actual competition, just those that wish to compete. read your bible more carefully. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. if its about jesus, its about the truth. i rest my case. you need absolutes, do you? with god, all things are possible. thats the only absolute i know of in this world. of course, you dont have to believe that if you dont want to. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. so, it doesnt matter if you have the truth or not if you dont understand it correctly. and my bible says the majority is usually wrong on most matters. i wouldnt look for strength in numbers when it comes to the truth. or as mark twain so eloquently put it in some of his notes: "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 12, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2006 Can we pleae capitalize when we talk about God or Jesus? Not to this is very disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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