Clarity sought on Luke 9:28-32

[Fiosh]

Yes, Moses was a spirit not raised physically yet and Elijah never died.

Mark

I'd like to add a question to this discussion. If it's not appropriate here, CC, let me know and I'll delete it.

It intrigues me that 1) Jesus acended bodily to heaven; 2) Elijah was taken bodily by the angels to God; and 3) Michael the Archangel disputed with Satan over the body of Moses.

This seems to indicate that "heaven" is not simply a spiritual realm, but a physical place.

It's a concept that I can't wrap my puny brain around.

Any thoughts, insights, Scriptural references, that might help.

Thanks,

Fiosh

Just to say right on Brother

That'd be "sister".

Fiosh is a nickname I acquired when my little nephews couldn't pronounce Felicia.

[Christian]

*Bump*

[Christian]

My original question:

As Jesus was the firstfruits of those to be raised from the dead I have always wondered how He is talking with Moses and Elijah who appear in glory here in Luke ?

Luke 9:28-32

28 And it came to pass about eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

I'm not sure I go along with the "time space continuum" aspect suggested. I think it would be a more "real time", obvious solution.

My Point:

2 Kings 2:11,12

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

It would seem that Elijah could very well have been in heaven "looking down" upon Jesus in the transfiguration

Whereas:

Deuteronomy 34:5-7

So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

By all rights if Moses suffered a "normal" death as stated and was "buried" by Jehovah, are we making an assumption that this means the soul of Moses went to heaven before Christ was resurrected?

in Christ,

-CC-

[Christian]

*bump*

[Ovedya]

Seems to me that the most importatn aspect of the transfiguration was the message that it imparted to Peter, James and John.

To a Jew Moses is the father of the Law and Elijah is the "father" of the prophets. The Lord Jesus spoke many times of "the law and the prophets." The books comprising the Mosaic law and all the written prophecies were considered inspired by the Jews. The other books - the books of history, poetry, and wisdom were general not considered as inspiried as the books of the law and those of the prophets.

So, to paraphrase this event, Jesus took Peter James, and John up to a mountain, away from the crwods, and transfigured Himself to them. That is, He revealed His true essence to them in a physical way. Then Moses and Elijah appeared. Peter's first reaction was to honor Moses and Elijah equally with the Lord by preparing a place for them - a tent for each of the three. Immediately a voice came from the heavens saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. Hear Him." In response to the voice, all three fell to their faces on the ground, and when the Lord touched them and told them to arise, He was there alone.

This whole event signified the transferrence of the authority of the law and the prophets over to Christ. By His human living and death, Christ fulfilled the law. And by His birth, living, death and resurrection, Christ fulfilled the prophets. Therefore, His speaking is the speaking forth of God's complete authority. I believe that God used this event to solidify this transferrence and to impart this understanding into Peter, James and John, and even to us who read this account.

[Guest rick crompton]

As Jesus was the firstfruits of those to be raised from the dead I have always wondered how He is talking with Moses and Elijah who appear in glory here in Luke ?

Firstfruits from the dead and " resurrected from the dead " cannot mean the same thing. Christ was NOT the first resurrected from the dead ( He is the resurrection and the life ).

The woman of Zarephath's son, the Shunnamite's son, Jairus' daughter, the widow of Nain's son, and Lazarus were all resurrected form the dead.

Christ is the firstfruits of the dead through His fulfilling of the law and the inability of death to hold a sinless individual, while the others were resurrected under the Old Covenant as prefigurements of Christ's New Covenant resurrection.

In Christ

Rick

Please forgive me Crusader for Christ I overlooked your question within all of this and only responded to the scriptures.

Jesus was the firstfruits from the dead because He was the first person who ever was resurrected from the dead. The bible say that Moses was "buried" by God when he died and didn't get to go into the promised land cause he disobeyed God in the speaking to the rock and smiting the rock thing took place and God didn't allow him to go into the promised land.

So as far as scripture tells on Moses is that he died and God buried him or took care of that. How God did the burial is unknown he could have taken him on home like Elijah even though scripture says Moses did actually die but in the same way as God swoop down and took Elijah up to heaven God could have swoop down and took Moses body up to Him not allowing Satan to get it as God had a further purpose for these two men of God. The scripture do say they was a dispute over the body of Moses with Micheal the arch angel and Satan and he was rebuked by God so I tend to think God preserved Moses body for a future time and Satan was not allowed to take it as he had all the other saints bodies when they died and went into Abraham's bosom which is paradise where they were held captive at.

Jesus would still be firstfruits cause Moses nor Elijah arose from the dead for God took care of those two himself for His reasons alone. And as I already give my opinion of the scriptures that could be some of the reasons why God use these two figures to strenghten his Son Jesus to be able to go through his death on the cross to finish His work in the earth.

Sorry I miss your original question

OC

[Smalcald]

Seems to me that the most importatn aspect of the transfiguration was the message that it imparted to Peter, James and John.

To a Jew Moses is the father of the Law and Elijah is the "father" of the prophets. The Lord Jesus spoke many times of "the law and the prophets." The books comprising the Mosaic law and all the written prophecies were considered inspired by the Jews. The other books - the books of history, poetry, and wisdom were general not considered as inspiried as the books of the law and those of the prophets.

So, to paraphrase this event, Jesus took Peter James, and John up to a mountain, away from the crwods, and transfigured Himself to them. That is, He revealed His true essence to them in a physical way. Then Moses and Elijah appeared. Peter's first reaction was to honor Moses and Elijah equally with the Lord by preparing a place for them - a tent for each of the three. Immediately a voice came from the heavens saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. Hear Him." In response to the voice, all three fell to their faces on the ground, and when the Lord touched them and told them to arise, He was there alone.

This whole event signified the transferrence of the authority of the law and the prophets over to Christ. By His human living and death, Christ fulfilled the law. And by His birth, living, death and resurrection, Christ fulfilled the prophets. Therefore, His speaking is the speaking forth of God's complete authority. I believe that God used this event to solidify this transferrence and to impart this understanding into Peter, James and John, and even to us who read this account.

Excellent point.

It also solidifies very clearly the divinity of Christ and His Lordship and the special unity relationship to God, something far above both Moses and Elijha, something no other being has. As you say something God wanted Peter to understand and us to understand

.

[Openly Curious]

As Jesus was the firstfruits of those to be raised from the dead I have always wondered how He is talking with Moses and Elijah who appear in glory here in Luke ?

Firstfruits from the dead and " resurrected from the dead " cannot mean the same thing. Christ was NOT the first resurrected from the dead ( He is the resurrection and the life ).

The woman of Zarephath's son, the Shunnamite's son, Jairus' daughter, the widow of Nain's son, and Lazarus were all resurrected form the dead.

Christ is the firstfruits of the dead through His fulfilling of the law and the inability of death to hold a sinless individual, while the others were resurrected under the Old Covenant as prefigurements of Christ's New Covenant resurrection.

In Christ

Rick

Hello Rick,

The only difference between those you mention the woman of Zarephath's son and all the rest of them is that "None" of those who were brought back to life received a "Glorified" body but Jesus was the first one who did this making him "firstfruits" and I am not going to quivel over terminology with you here in how something is said. I think you get my point as Jesus was the only one resurrected from the dead with a glorified body when He come up out of the ground that third day it was not back to his earthly fleshly body He had before His death on the cross but it was a "Glorified Body" that you couldn't kill again like all the example's you have given with Jairus' daughter and Lazurus and the others they came back to their earthly bodies. blessings to you in Christ.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Seems to me that the most importatn aspect of the transfiguration was the message that it imparted to Peter, James and John.

To a Jew Moses is the father of the Law and Elijah is the "father" of the prophets. The Lord Jesus spoke many times of "the law and the prophets." The books comprising the Mosaic law and all the written prophecies were considered inspired by the Jews. The other books - the books of history, poetry, and wisdom were general not considered as inspiried as the books of the law and those of the prophets.

So, to paraphrase this event, Jesus took Peter James, and John up to a mountain, away from the crwods, and transfigured Himself to them. That is, He revealed His true essence to them in a physical way. Then Moses and Elijah appeared. Peter's first reaction was to honor Moses and Elijah equally with the Lord by preparing a place for them - a tent for each of the three. Immediately a voice came from the heavens saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. Hear Him." In response to the voice, all three fell to their faces on the ground, and when the Lord touched them and told them to arise, He was there alone.

This whole event signified the transferrence of the authority of the law and the prophets over to Christ. By His human living and death, Christ fulfilled the law. And by His birth, living, death and resurrection, Christ fulfilled the prophets. Therefore, His speaking is the speaking forth of God's complete authority. I believe that God used this event to solidify this transferrence and to impart this understanding into Peter, James and John, and even to us who read this account.

excellence in everyway

OC