God's plan for the Gentiles?

[greendrakkon]

This is something that has been bothering me as well.

I only recently have rejoined the Lord, and I've been

working on studying the Bible. So much of the Old Testament

seems to be anti-Gentile. Yet I am a Gentile. How do I

study it? It seems that many times Gentiles are excluded

from God's plan, or outright destroyed (Book of Joshua).

What causes God to act as though we are inferior throughout

so much of the OT. What causes him to change his mind later?

I'm not trying to find reasons to doubt, but it seems that we

are an afterthought. Even Jesus at first refused a Gentile.

Mar 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit,

heard of him, and came and fell at his feet.

Mar 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought

him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

Mar 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the

children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Mar 7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table

eat of the children's crumbs.

Mar 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

I really want to understand this, it has become a stumbling block for me.

Are we Gentiles only acceptable because so many of the Jews decided not to follow Jesus?

[Mark777]

Hello Greendrakkon,

Jesus was testing the woman's faith. Jesus is God He knows the hearts of men. The lesson was for the woman and in the end for us. God reacts to faith above all things.

At one time, before Abraham was called of God, everyone was a gentile. God called Abraham and Sarah out of the world to father not only nations but "the" nation. Israel was called as God's special people. They physically fathered the Messiah, they kept the writings and truths of God. They were used by God to teach the world in all ages. They have been used by God and are blessed by God. This isn't a racial preference. Abraham and Sarah were Chaldeans. The reason their descendants are special is that they believed God and followed Him. God made certain promises to them which He will keep. but He has also blessed the gentile world with the gospel and salvation. We are loved by Him also.

Mark

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Gods desire with the Messiah was not to punish the Jew. It was to Bless them.

I'm not taking umberage with you Christopher John. Rather I would that no one be confused.

The Jew was to provoke the Gentile to jealousy with the Living God. Now since the Church is largely Gentile in this age. We the Church are to provoke the Jew to jealousy with the Messiah.

You can read about this in Romans 10, 11, and 12.

He's their Messiah first.

The Church will return to the Jew.

There is some key Scripture speaking of this;

Ro

[st. Worm]

Dear greendrakkon,

I believe your problem is that you misunderstand the connection between the Old and New Testaments. The Bible does not support the teaching that God has a special plan for bringing Jews to faith in Christ. This is because when it comes to God

[Smalcald]

Hi Dave, I agree.

But most Jews today don't even believe in God, they are totally secular, including those who live in Israel. So where do we even start with spreading the message of Jesus as the Christ? I am depressed about that, I feel relatively helpless in this idea of provoking them to faith. How can we provoke them to jealousy when they don't even believe in any God, let alone the God that calls them?

I was thinking of how to evangelize the Jewish people, and I almost wonder if we should help them return to Judaism first, then look to Christ?

But I assume God has a plan and indeed He has said a remnant will be saved, so I rely on that, I am just unclear about what I am to do individually?

[Mark777]

God's dealings with man is like a snake - Israel is the head and we are the tail. We are a grafted tail at that.

Mark

[Smalcald]

God's dealings with man is like a snake - Israel is the head and we are the tail. We are a grafted tail at that.

Mark

No Christ is the head. We are not grafted on to those who not only do not accept Christ, but do not even believe in God.

God grafted us through Christ alone.

Our salvation has nothing to do with a secular nation state in the Middle East.

[Mark777]

Roman 11

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel: 3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? 4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:

"God gave them a spirit of stupor,

eyes so that they could not see

and ears so that they could not hear,

to this very day."D

9And David says:

"May their table become a snare and a trap,

a stumbling block and a retribution for them.

10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,

and their backs be bent forever."E

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken

off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The deliverer will come from Zion;

he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

27And this is my covenant with them

when I take away their sins."

28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may nowH receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and

knowledge of God!

How unsearchable his judgments,

and his paths beyond tracing out!

34"Who has known the mind of the Lord?

Or who has been his counselor?"

35"Who has ever given to God,

that God should repay him?"

36For from him and through him and to him are all things.

To him be the glory forever! Amen.

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Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV

Copyright

[Mark777]

Smalcald,

You quote me as if I was quoting Scripture. I am allowed to invent my own analogy. I said "God's dealings with men" not "salvation" and Jesus is God, the one dealing with men.

Mark

[EricH]

God's desire has always been restore all of humanity to a relationship with Himself. Even His soverieng choice of Abrahman and Israel was designed to create a model community that would demonstrate to the world how they could relate to God properly. Notice the promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:3b

And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Genesis 12:3b NASB

The gentile nations are not an afterthought with God. Their resoration is a part of His eternal plan, just as Israel's regathering is also a part of His eternal plan.