How can a God of love allow stoning as a death penalty ?

[Leonard]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from??????

I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

By merely reading the Bible, Leonard! The evidence is abundant! He advocates killing children and showing no mercy! The Bible presents an image of a God who is a monster, sorry.

Even if SecondEve were wrong--and I don't think she is--how could it be "ridiculous" for her to come to her conclusion based on the lunacy that is in that book?

Your posts illustrate very well the difference between the European atheists and the American atheists. In Europe, the atheist doesn't care at all if someone believes in God, or wants to talk about Him; in a very blaze' way, they will simply say: "I am an atheist." In America the 'atheist' feels the need to attack this God they supposedly don't believe in!

But, back to the point: The Roman Church believes that unbaptized babies can go to hell, but I know of no other sect of Christianity which believes so; and most Roman Catholics don't believe it either, despite the official teaching of the Roman church on the subject.

In my opinion, noone goes to hell, but over the broken heart of God, Who sent His only Son to save them. I know God, and I assure you HE WILL BE FAIR. Hell is only for those who KNOWINGLY reject God's gift of an eternity spent in His presence. "If in this life only we have hope of Christ, we are of all men most miserable," the Apostle Paul says. I believe he is specifically addressing what Second Eve is talking about: During their life on this side of the veil, many people we love dearly may not have CONVINCINGLY heard the Gospel presented. In Second Eve's scenario, they would indeed be lost. However, 'The Judge of all the earth' WILL do justly.' These will hear the Gospel presented in such uncertain terms that they will know clearly the complete difference their choice will make: Either eternal bliss in the presence of God, or an eternity apart from Him. There are people who simply cannot stand the pure holiness and wonder of the Lord's presence. For them Heaven would be a constant torment. They would CHOOSE to go elsewhere.

[CellShade]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

Err you got a bad mistake there, God won't send an infant to hell, or a baby, or a young kid, at that age you truely haven't gotten the concept of good and evil, so God will not send infants or young children to hell, funny how you can quote stuff from The Bible, without reading the full story and the reasong for some happenings, yet you still can't quote "The kingdom of the is of the children" Not quoted precisely, can't remember exact verse to go and look it up .

Bleswsings .

P.S. to my personal believe I child knows the most important from good and wrong at arround 10 years old.

[pointer]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from?????? I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

By merely reading the Bible, Leonard! The evidence is abundant! He advocates killing children and showing no mercy!

The killing of orphaned children is merciful- the alternative being slow death by exposure. It is in any case nothing greatly to do with the issue of eternal fate, which is believed to be dependent on choice for those who have not heard the gospel, irrespective of age.

First, I couldn't agree less with your statement.

How significant is that? Are you God?

Mere statement of disagreement is tantamount to admission of a failed argument, imv. End of debate.

Secondly, read what was said in the verse--It says nothing about mercy.

But you added that idea, nevertheless.

That fact doesn't mean that the act was not merciful.

[Arthur Durnan]

The creator allows fallen humanity the freedom of choice: freedom to obey and freedom to reject. I prefer that to being a Chatty-Kathy Doll, you know, where one string pulled will say, "I love you," and the other string pulled would shout, "I hate you!" Humans have choices to make. Some in Australia, for example, reject Jesus Christ. Many others love Him. Some in Australia (and elsewhere too, of course) pretend to be "atheists" when, in all reality, there is no such thing whatever! At least, not until & unless our "atheist" friends undertake that imperative I.I.O. trip throughout the galaxies. Very interesting.

Man chose unwisely back in Beautiful Eden. He pulled the wrong string, so to speak. Very bad choice as he was the representative man. The Creator didn't stop Adam from eating forbideen fruit. He had told him not to, but man thought otherwise. Bad choice. The Creator also didn't prevent an angry Cain from committing the first murder. Cain made Bad Choice No. 2. And fallen folk today also make very bad choices to lie, cheat on, kidnap, plunder, and annihilate. Greed, depravity, slander, murder, ruthlessness (Romans 1) are not good choices. Many of us are not very nice people at times. But the entire scene is one of Man-On-His-Own. Man telling God what to do rather than man recognizing & obeying God's holiness & the authority of a Creator re His creation.

The Creator did however stop an ancient world "stone-cold-dead-in-the-market-place" but only after long centuries of violence & rampant inhumanity (Genesis 6). To do so, God had to destroy the majority of the race and begin afresh. Further, God didn't prevent His Own people, ancient Israel, from sinning. They were told to choose life, not death (Deut. 30), but they tragically chose otherwise. Life for everyone is a plethora of personal choices - with either beautiful consequences or deadly ones. We, as responsible creatures, choose every day rightly or very wrongly.

Bottom line: if humans are to be truly free to make meaningful choices, the world must operate according to the rules that make human freedom possible - or have you forgotten? Suppose the Creator did change the rules for your sake and prevented people from doing hurtful things to others, would He halt all evil or would He halt just some of it? How bad would evil have to be - we all have our own opinions, yes? - for God to intervene? Genocide? Ritual murder? Torture? Wife-beating? Child abuse in its worst form of aborticide? A slap in one's face? A very nasty word from you? Would God stop people like us from writing bad checks? What about cheating on school tests - acceptable? And stealing supplies from one's office? How far do you think God should intervene in human life to halt human evil?

But a bigger question: If God were to intervene to prevent evil, don't you feel He would have to intervene in everyone's life including your own? Yes? That is, of course, if He were to be quite fair about things? Or don't you admit to failings or shortcomings or, sure, say it, sin of any kind? You're faultless, kind sir, kind madam? Hmm. Honestly, wouldn't He have to start with us first? "Please, God, search my own heart & mind, and clean me up starting today!" Yes? Would we want that? Hardly. Imagine it if you will, confession of our own sins to Almighty God! Exposing our own life to the rest of modern society! And if He did start with us, wouldn't that be called infringing on our own liberty? We'd no longer be free moral agents able to choose for ourselves whether wisely or unwisely. God would be quite active, would He not, in intervening in everyone's life virtually non-stop? We'd be those Chatty-Kathy types, actual automatons with someone else regulating exhaustively every behavior of each person alive including, yes, you. There's no way around it. To be responsible moral beings - as God wants us to be - we must have the freedom to choose what's right for its own sake. We cannot have our decisions & choices made for us or have someone elses' forced upon us. No way! What was it that G.K. Chesterton said? "It's not bigotry to be certain we're right, but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might be wrong!' Right on, kind sir!

Face it: people are the culprits, not the Creator. One should never blame the architect of the Cologne Cathedral - which self-styled "atheists" must do! - for its destruction during the Second World War. Blames lies with the perpetrators! Res ipsa loquitor indeed. That would make anything from a Holocaust to the shooting of a loved one, a product of life, of the human mind. Rebelling against the Creator is not something God calls for or wishes upon humanity. One day in heaven's plan, Jesus Christ will return (Isaiah 11:1-9) to rule in righteousness this time. All rebellion & inhumanity will be put down as with the blink of an eyelash. God in Jesus Christ came 2000-years ago to take on the worst the rebellious world could, and did, mete out. In His crucifixion, God put to rest for all time any idea that He doesn't care about us. He lives today as Savior, Healer and new life-Giver. Even "atheists" are invited to share in everlasting life thru faith in the Redeemer's strong Name! At the least, it's disingenuous to keep blaming the Cologne architect rather than the morally incapacitated. It's a total cul-de-sac. Medice, cura te ipsum!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[sylvan3]

To the many posts above:

The God that is portrayed in the Bible is illogical. A perfect deity cannot create an imperfect world. To say that man CHOSE to enter into sin ignores the fact that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity CHOSE to create humans whom he knew would misuse free will. The original CHOICE was from God.

It is impossible to believe the illogical. Your arguments have no logical foundation. The contortions of logic that are required for your beliefs are beyond what many are able to do. My advice to you: Don't strain too hard.

[Leonard]

To the many posts above:

The God that is portrayed in the Bible is illogical. A perfect deity cannot create an imperfect world. To say that man CHOSE to enter into sin ignores the fact that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity CHOSE to create humans whom he knew would misuse free will. The original CHOICE was from God.

It is impossible to believe the illogical. Your arguments have no logical foundation. The contortions of logic that are required for your beliefs are beyond what many are able to do. My advice to you: Don't strain too hard.

Once again, I must say I realize how comforting it must be for you to have your mind hermetically sealed against the polluting influence of facts. This way you can INVARIABLY arrive back at the conclusions with which you begin! It is the same sort of elaborate 'logical box' which paranoid schizophrenics build around their delusions. It has been hilarious speaking with you, but I'm getting to the age where I no longer tolerate such tom foolery well. So, should you ever gain true sagacity, I won't be hard to find.

Your every question has been answered, and in ways that any reasoning person can say, "Hmmm. That's a good response. I may not accept it, but I'm no longer quite so cock-sure in all my opinions." Yet you show absolutely no evidence of even grasping the argumentations being made to you. I don't think you're stupid; I think you're just pretending to not understand. Frankly you've become predictable and boring...... I'm through talking to phonies.

[CellShade]

To the many posts above:

The God that is portrayed in the Bible is illogical. A perfect deity cannot create an imperfect world. To say that man CHOSE to enter into sin ignores the fact that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity CHOSE to create humans whom he knew would misuse free will. The original CHOICE was from God.

You simply don't understand the world don't you, something perfect is not something robotized just to do one thing, God's plan is so perfect , Free will is the base of perfection, if everything was perfect, then it would be imperfect due to the no choice at all or the no variable tot his world.

The creation was made for Him, it is for His glory, not for us Mankind, for you with your close minded mind this is imperfect world, for God the earth was created perfect, for it wa perfect coming from Perfect and The Creator.

Only God is perfect.

Besides dunno if you don't know but God kind of made us perfect in His creation start, but sin made us imperfect, or less then perfect.

Sin on earth made earth imperfect.

[Floatingaxe]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

For your information, infants and children upon death go to be with the Lord! You sure paint the Lord God as quite the tyrant!

He is holy and righteous! Sin has no place in heaven. Children are under the blood--they are not held accountable as they have not reached the age of reason. I hope this helps your misunderstanding of God.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Floatingaxe

[EricH]

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all

[redeemed098]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I simply refuse to answer such a question or respond to such a statement when it is clearly founded on a competely false premise of who God IS. I will not entertain a question whos motives border on trying to justify their own sins simply by condemning God. There is nothing wrong with God. He is perfectly right and perfectly just in every single decision he makes......It is YOU who is the sinner...........If you continue to take this line of coversation we will have no choice but to elevate you from UNbelief to Rebellion. Why..????? It is clear that you are not in a position where you do not believe as it is clear that you DO....The simple fact is that you do not LIKE the God of the bible. That is not UNbelief eve...That is rejection. You are not an UNbeliever, you are a rejecter of Christ.

Time to stop with the accusations of God..(by the way there has only ever been one accuser of God..Satan. You need to think about that next time you decide to accuse God of wrongdoing. Too bad if you dont like what God decrees..What you going to do about it..??? Reject him.....???Yeah that'll fix him wont it..??? Go to hell to spite him.....The only one who will suffer in hell is YOU..He wants to save you from going there and all you can do is give an opinionated attempt to justify your own sins by condemning HIM....Time to start asking RIGHT questions eve.....

Am I really a sinner who is Lost to God ?

Do I really need to repent of my sins in order to be right with God...?

Did Jesus really die for my sins..???

Has he really made it possible for me to be reconciled with my creator...?

Do I really need to be Born Again into the kingdom of God to spend eternity with God..?

If God has done all of this for me as a sinner, while I was a sinner, then what pray tell has he saved me FROM.....?

"In repentance and rest is your salvation, In quietness and trust is your strength."

"He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High,(There is NONE higher, that is why he is the MOST HIGH.) shall REST in the shadow of the Almighty.

Regards,

Ben.

Edited July 13, 2006 by redeemed098