Women in the Church today

[st. Worm]

What makes this board any different than a regular assembly?

Why are there females on here who have more authority than men, and who are teachng (which some posts suggest) more than woman and children?

Why is it that it's ok via internet, yet not in person? Isn't it hypocritical to say that woman are to be submissive to men, to only teach woman and children, to not hold positions of authority over men.....yet allow it here on the board?

Just curious about how you would reconcile that, or if you would say that isn't happening here.

jamie, I would say this board is not the same as a church, where the preaching of the Word occurs and where the Sacraments are properly administered. The church, not worthy boards, is the bride of Christ.

blessings,

sw

The church is the gathering together of all those who were "called out" of the world. We are the "called out ones." Any gathering together of the saints in God's household is where the church is.

This is not the church and does not have the true marks of a church. It does not preach the gospel nor administer the sacraments. Further it does not provide for church discipline.

sw

1) Worthy preaches the gospel every day.

2) Believers on Worthy partake of the Lord's Table and have been baptised into the church, of which every Christian participant of this board is a member.

3) Believers in their respective church localities are disciplined as the Lord sees fit. Nevertheless, Worthy does its own fair share of "casting out" (banning) members from the fellowship.

Worthy does not preach anything. Nor does worthy serve Holy Communion or baptize. Nor does worthy exercise church discipline (primarily because it is not a church!). Worthy is a para-church ministry organization. Overdya, if you are seriously arguing that Worthy is truly a church you should be aware of the consequences of that should some new believer take you seriously and decide they do not need a real church. Better keep that in mind lest you cause some little one to sin. I would imagine a millstone around your neck would not be much fun.

sw

The gospel is being preached all over the world through Worthy. Maybe you're not paying much attention to what this ministry is doing, though.

Since when has serving communion or baptism been limited to a particular setting with a particular means? John the baptist baptized in the river Jordan out in the open. Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch in a river out in the open. Neither of these baptisms were in a church building conducted by an ordained priest through the means of some ritual practice. When Philip preached to the Eunuch, the eunuch said, "Look, water. What prevents me from being baptized?"

When the Lord's table was first established in practice it took place from house to house daily (Acts 2:46). It was not conducted by a priest of a certain religious denomination, at a certain appointed time and place, and with certain prayers being prayed and reciprocal recitations being spoken.

When a member of the Body of Christ partakes of the Lord's Table he is partaking of the same expression of God's grace as another believer thousands of miles away. When he is baptized he is joined to the Body of Christ, which is universal with all the believers all over the earth. The Body of Christ has no boundaries. It is not limited to a local expression - a local church. Therefore, whether Worthy baptized or whether it conducts communion or not, all the members still have. There is no commandment that a "true church" conducts certain "true practices" in order to be considered the church. While is is practical and necessary for all believers to be a part of a local church, Worthy is just a valid expression of the universal church. It is not the intent of Worthy to replace any local church or to draw believers away from their local churches. However, it is nevertheless just as valuable in terms of providing spiritual nourishment and growth.

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

[Ovedya]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

[EricH]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

[Guest jckduboise]

Wow what a good topic and it has brought up some other interesting issues.

But really we have several different topics. The fist topic is should women be Pastors? It is very clear in the bible, the bible clearly lays out the EXACT requirements for who should be a Pastor, it starts with a man of one wife, etc, this office is indeed held for men. But that is a separate topic from one of authority, power, submission, and all of what those mean.

However when we ignore scripture in one area, which those churches that have ordained women have done, we see the possible end result, and that is ignoring scripture in the most important areas (of which who to ordain is not the most important area). If we can simply blow off the direct and clear command about who is to be a pastor, then maybe we can blow of the part about Christ having risen from the dead, being the Way the Truth and the Life, being the only path to God. This is the path that some major denominations, which have ignored direct scripture concerning who to ordain, have followed. I would not have guessed that this would happen but it has.

But the office of pastor being held for a man, is not saying that women should be subordinate to men, in fact the Gospel says the opposite of that. But it is no more sexist to claim that a man should hold that position of pastor than it is to claim that it is sexist for Christ to have been a male, or that it is sexist to claim that Mary the mother of our Lord and Savior was a women.

The fact is though there has been no refutation of the passages which I quoted much earlier showing who was to be ordained, they are direct it is addressing THIS very issue, there is no need for the complex twisting. One of the main arguments for ordaining women that I have heard was that Paul, himself was sexist and thus we must ignore a good portion of what he has to say about women. In this mode of thought, Paul is a product of his times, but of course this would mean a good portion of the New Testament itself is sexist, a product of its time. Well gee, then it is no longer truth nor can we say it is from God it is time and culturally bound, in need of modern interpretation. When this thought process happens, the faith is hurt very badly, as the Gospel itself is now in question. Paul spoke the Words God implanted in his heart, they are from God, if you deny those words you stand against God, you stand against Christ and you stand against the Gospel itself. Bishop Shelby Spong of the Episcopal Church USA goes down this path taking it to its logical extension. His end is that Christ was not divine, but simply a man who was killed and thrown to the dogs. I believe Bishop Spong claims that his body burned after He was killed, and of course He didn

[st. Worm]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

[Ovedya]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

Maybe you just don't quite understand what we're talking about. Are you not aware tha tthe church has two expressions, universal and local?

[EricH]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

I did not say that. Both have different functions, but are part of the same universal body.

[st. Worm]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

I did not say that. Both have different functions, but are part of the same universal body.

Not sure what that means exactly but suffice it to say, worthy boards is not a church and apparently no one is saying that it is from what I can discern.

sw

[EricH]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

I did not say that. Both have different functions, but are part of the same universal body.

Not sure what that means exactly but suffice it to say, worthy boards is not a church and apparently no one is saying that it is from what I can discern.

sw

Wothy is an expression of the church universal. It has a different role in the kingdom than a local church. But it is still a part of the universal church of all believers. I think your issue is that you are viewing the church in an institutional way rather than the organic view held by the NT writers. Or maybe its that you dont understand the universal body and so have divorced the local expression of that body from its context

[st. Worm]

Without addressing your other issues, I will take that as your acknowledgement that Worthy Boards is not a church regardless of its other merits.

sw

The only acknowledgement I made was that Worthy is not a local expression of the church. It is however very much an expression of the universal aspect of the church. As such, it is the church.

Amen, just like groups like the Navigators, Intervarsity etc are not expressions of the local church, but are arms of the church universal

Then you believe that Worthy boards and other para-church organzations are no different from the local church? I think overdya is playing word games but you usually seem more direct.

sw

I did not say that. Both have different functions, but are part of the same universal body.

Not sure what that means exactly but suffice it to say, worthy boards is not a church and apparently no one is saying that it is from what I can discern.

sw

Wothy is an expression of the church universal. It has a different role in the kingdom than a local church. But it is still a part of the universal church of all believers. I think your issue is that you are viewing the church in an institutional way rather than the organic view held by the NT writers. Or maybe its that you dont understand the universal body and so have divorced the local expression of that body from its context

I think the visible church is real and has certain characteristics. Luther said the marks of a true church are that it properly preaches the gospel and administers the sacraments. Calvin added church discipline as a third mark. I think both of those are biblically reasonable. Worthy board really exhibits none of those and is not a church. It is a gathering of those who are both in the church and out. There are both unbelievers and those who have rejected Christ's church here as part of a bad anti church movement. This is not a criticism of worthy board in any way. But it is not a church.

sw