Women in the Church today

[st. Worm]

Secular feminist political pressure? I think not. There is nothing secular about it. In fact, the whole notion that masculists are believing is secular.

I have no idea what this means.

The reason we don't ordain women is because the role of pastor and its requirements are clearly shown in scripture to be reserved for males. Any idea, which would contradict that, would come from outside of scripture and be secular in nature. In the case of the Episcopal Church USA it came from the secular feminist movement who claimed that Paul himself was sexist as were his writings in the New Testament. So now we see ECUSA saying that fornication is acceptable, that gay sex is acceptable among their bishops, and that Christ is not the only way to salvation. This is where this junk leads, and it is junk.

Is the bible itself a masculist document? I mean why didn't Christ appoint any female apostles? Was Christ a masculist? Certainly feminists would criticize Him today for only selecting men as Apostles correct? Maybe God should be seen as a Mother Earth type figure, a Goddess? This is the common claptrap language from those who are in the process of politicizing the bible for use in their own secular hang-ups. We cannot create a God that fits our notions or our politics, the only God we have and the only true God is revealed in Holy Scripture.

But I don't know if you are in that camp or not, and I am not laying that all on you at all, if not accept my apologies in advance.

What do you think would happen if Jesus invited females to be any of His disciples? Well no one knows why He didn't. But it is well-known that it was a culture He entered that denied women any status! He would be placing an undue hardship upon any woman He would call to that role. Jesus did not come to correct ALL cultural sins immediately! He only had 3 years, after all!

These things, along with slavery took centuries to eradicate, and we are still working on it. The culture of that time was influenced by Roman and Greek culture--all woman-hating!

I believe that Jesus knew that these walls were very strong and that if the world would follow after Him, then these things would naturally change. They have done so...but alas, not as well as they should have. Why? Because the devil has worked overtime to keep societies in bondage, especially about the role of the woman! He has successfully HALVED the Kingdom workforce AND caused men to fall to the sin of PRIDE. Woe to the church! If that isn't secularism, I don't know what is! We are all living under the influence of many of the Greek women-hating ideas yet today.

The church should be a role model to the world in the way it should function--men and women working together to serve the Lord and preach the good news as Jesus commanded ALL of us.

Re: your suggestion that I may be a member of the feminist "movement" which is trying to change the view of God to a Mother-type--NO. I am not in that camp. My views are shaped by scripture ONLY. Paul was not sexist in the least! I love him! He worked alongside women pastors throughout. He had no problem with that.

Blessings

I agree with much of what you have said. I also use only scripture as my guide, or try as much as is possible for a sinful person to do so. But you know of course that Christ did not come to change cultural sins. Individuals are sinful, cultures reflect those individuals. Christ came for one purpose to save those who have faith in Him as their Lord and Savior and to destroy sin and death and reconcile us with God. The only way this world will ever truly change is for people to convert to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Outside of that, there will never be true change as sin will always reign outside of Christ.

I am glad you like Paul and Holy Scripture then you agree with Paul that only men should hold the office of pastor.

No. Paul encouraged women and supported them and worked alongside them in their roles as pastors. We are all called to preach, and in so fulfilling the command of Jesus to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations, we are all called to pastor! Making disciples is pastoring.

Blessings

This is bogus. Paul told women to be silent in church and this was clearly an apostolic directive not to preach. All Christians are not called to preach. That is bogus too. Pastors have authority and do not remain silent. Women cannot have that type of authority and are to be silent.

sw

[Ovedya]

A kind reminder~ The topic is: Women in the Church today!

Do you attend a church that has a woman pastor?

Do you attend a church where the women are deacons?

Do you attend a church where women are allowed to particapate with the Pastor in passing communion?

Does it bother you that Women are now handling jobs that used to be for men only?

Now let's get back on topic!

Snow4JC

No.

Yes.

No.

Yes, as it is unbiblical.

Why do you stay in a church where you have a hard time understanding and accepting your female elder or deacon's role? I would like to know this.

Sorry. ? I don't understand the question. According to the Bible women are permitted to hold the position of deacon (or deaconess) since a Biblical deacon does not define or teach church orthodoxy or doctrine. I don't have a problem with this at all.

[Floatingaxe]

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us we are to go and preach to and baptize all the nations? Do not tell me that all Christians are not to preach. Women are included. Jesus was inclusive of women in His ministry, shocking the woman-hating Jewish and Roman culture of His day. Paul also made radical corrections as He began church after church with women in the lead and leading in other ways.

Misogyny has been perpetuated throughout the ages from the Greek and Roman empires. This is nothing new. But we need to take a look at how Jesus Himself dispelled all that hatred for women when He taught them directly--against all Jewish law!

[apothanein kerdos]

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us we are to go and preach to and baptize all the nations? Do not tell me that all Christians are not to preach. Women are included. Jesus was inclusive of women in His ministry, shocking the woman-hating Jewish and Roman culture of His day. Paul also made radical corrections as He began church after church with women in the lead and leading in other ways.

Misogyny has been perpetuated throughout the ages from the Greek and Roman empires. This is nothing new. But we need to take a look at how Jesus Himself dispelled all that hatred for women when He taught them directly--against all Jewish law!

But they did not make up the 12 which all authority was given to. Interesting, eh?

Likewise, you are deviating from certain scriptures the moment it's shown you have an incorrect translation...any reason for this?

[Floatingaxe]

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us we are to go and preach to and baptize all the nations? Do not tell me that all Christians are not to preach. Women are included. Jesus was inclusive of women in His ministry, shocking the woman-hating Jewish and Roman culture of His day. Paul also made radical corrections as He began church after church with women in the lead and leading in other ways.

Misogyny has been perpetuated throughout the ages from the Greek and Roman empires. This is nothing new. But we need to take a look at how Jesus Himself dispelled all that hatred for women when He taught them directly--against all Jewish law!

But they did not make up the 12 which all authority was given to. Interesting, eh?

Likewise, you are deviating from certain scriptures the moment it's shown you have an incorrect translation...any reason for this?

HUH?

[Ovedya]

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us we are to go and preach to and baptize all the nations? Do not tell me that all Christians are not to preach. Women are included. Jesus was inclusive of women in His ministry, shocking the woman-hating Jewish and Roman culture of His day. Paul also made radical corrections as He began church after church with women in the lead and leading in other ways.

Misogyny has been perpetuated throughout the ages from the Greek and Roman empires. This is nothing new. But we need to take a look at how Jesus Himself dispelled all that hatred for women when He taught them directly--against all Jewish law!

Preaching the gospel is not a part of defining church doctrine or teaching church doctrine. You are confusing the two functions.

[Floatingaxe]

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us we are to go and preach to and baptize all the nations? Do not tell me that all Christians are not to preach. Women are included. Jesus was inclusive of women in His ministry, shocking the woman-hating Jewish and Roman culture of His day. Paul also made radical corrections as He began church after church with women in the lead and leading in other ways.

Misogyny has been perpetuated throughout the ages from the Greek and Roman empires. This is nothing new. But we need to take a look at how Jesus Himself dispelled all that hatred for women when He taught them directly--against all Jewish law!

Preaching the gospel is not a part of defining church doctrine or teaching church doctrine. You are confusing the two functions.

So if I came to your church and stood in your pulpit and preached the Truth, the gospel of Jesus Christ, I would be allowed?

[Floatingaxe]

This all sounds like "Churchianity" to me!

[Guest Spook]

A kind reminder~ The topic is: Women in the Church today!

Do you attend a church that has a woman pastor?

Do you attend a church where the women are deacons?

Do you attend a church where women are allowed to particapate with the Pastor in passing communion?

Does it bother you that Women are now handling jobs that used to be for men only?

Now let's get back on topic!

Snow4JC

no

no, but they are permitted to the office if they meet the qualifications.

no, only qualified males may serve at the altar.

yes, particularly if those "jobs" are limited by Apostolic teaching to be done by men alone.

[apothanein kerdos]

This all sounds like "Churchianity" to me!

There's a good label but one that ultimately has no meaning. By stating it is "churchianity" you are essentially saying, "look at you, you are relying on doctrines and not on faith!" The problem is that all faith must have a doctrinal basis in order to be true faith. Disallowing women to hold authority in the church is part of a doctrine and therefore part of faith. Even Peter Rollins, a leader in the emergent church and decidedly against any form of absolute epistimology in doctrine, still states in his book "How (Not) to Speak of God" that we need to have some form of doctrine within in our faith.